To think everyone loves traditions/culture unless it is our own? (UK)

[vitahelp]

This week has made me wonder about the above. I find so many people appreciate and enjoy tradition and culture when they are travelling overseas, but back in the UK will declare it outdated and embarrassing.

Things such as religion and places of worship are almost romanticised when abroad in certain countries, but back here are considered ridiculous by many. And I can’t help but think if we were watching from afar at a country who had just lost their Queen, the same people who are moaning this week would find it quite beautiful that people were wearing black and events were cancelled.

Is it just me who finds that culture and tradition are appreciated until they are on our doorstep?

You seem to be conflating two different things here - religion and a sense of national identity. The former, I can’t speak for everyone but I don’t think it’s as simple as people think it’s beautiful when observed abroad but outdated here.

There are elements of religious society that are interesting in a historical and cultural sense both here and abroad - the buildings and architecture and art, for example. People appreciate those things in the U.K. and abroad. But I don’t believe religion should be a driving force in societal norms or policy making, here or in other countries. It tends to lead to punitive policies like no abortion access, no gay marriage, or in extreme cases like the Middle East a severe curtailing of women’s rights. That doesn’t mean that Middle Eastern Islamic art and architecture isn’t beautiful.

As for nationalism, I think that’s become uncomfortably associated with the far right in some ways because they’ve co-opted the imagery like the St George cross. Nationalism can be just as dangerous in other countries too - look at the violence that’s happened between Spanish and Catalan separatists in the past, for instance. But for small communities whose language and traditions faded out/are being faded out with history like the Cornish or Welsh for example, nationalism is a source of pride and identity.

basically, it’s complicated. In the case of the queen, you can feel proud of the symbolism of the monarchy as a mark of Britishness but also conflicted about its involvement with colonialism and violence.

Ditto for Ireland. The customer is King. Avoca in Co Wicklow was sort of renamed Ballykissangel after some godawful TV series was filmed there.

Back to normal now but you get the idea.Our culture is whatever $$$ say it is.

I appreciate traditions and culture.

I don’t appreciate and have never agreed with the idea that some people (just because they’re inbred and truhhdition) deserve to have multiple massive multi million pound houses and funded by the taxpayer when there are people starving, struggling, can barely make ends meet working 40 hour weeks. Just because of the circumstances of their birth. It’s not charity work if you’re living in a palace for your trouble and you’re being given mandatory donations for your trouble. What else are they going to do with their day. I don’t get how people can see what’s happening in this country and still be okay with people (who will never give a fig about you by the way lmao) being so elevated above everyone else.

I don’t appreciate supporting nonce protectors.

I don’t appreciate supporting pro fox hunters.

I don’t appreciate supporting people with a fan base (because that’s what it is) who think a wayward son and his wife are so much more of a detriment to the future of the royal family than protecting said n*.

Love fish and chips, a Sunday road though.

It’s absolutely true. Example - how many of us regularly enjoy pizza, Indian curry, Thai curry, lasagne, stir fry etc but how many children are being raised today familiar with liver and bacon, steak and kidney pudding, Irish stew etc. I was talking to my mum and my two sisters about this only yesterday. I see the shops selling tat pertaining to ‘day of the dead’, ‘mardi gras’ and 4th of July - in England! And lots of white British now do things for diwali, eid etc. Fine, but how many of them celebrate Michaelmas, candlemas, Beltane, midwinter? Scottish and Welsh and Irish still hold much of their heritage dear, but not us English - we’ll have a bland pick and mix of everyone else’s culture instead!

Surely bonfire night would be Samhain / Halloween rather than Bealtaine? Though there used to fires and may poles I suppose.

I went to secondary school in England in the 60s. I recall asking my classmates what they did for Halloween. Not a single one knew what I meant. It was only hanging on in Ireland and Scotland til the films came out...

Example - how many of us regularly enjoy pizza, Indian curry, Thai curry, lasagne, stir fry etc but how many children are being raised today familiar with liver and bacon, steak and kidney pudding, Irish stew etc

I think that with the cost of living crisis, people are going to have to explore some more traditional foods such as liver and offal that are cheaper.

Meh, I have a grinch-like disregard for religion and tradition no matter where I am. I will respect it, but I don't find it particularly beautiful. Seeing religious symbolism in Malta would just remind me that it's a country that would happily have allowed a US tourist to become another Savita Halappanavar because of the dominance of the Catholic faith and its stance on abortion.

@cakeorwine vegetarian curries can be made very very cheaply, you know.

Lol as a Morris dancer I can assure you it is not dying out. In many places in fact having rather a resurgence, despite covid struggles. There are too many folk festivals for us to get round each year. People have a laugh about it but when we dance in public I only see enthusiasm from people watching. I hope you’ll all be coming to join us to help keep culture alive!!

French flags in places that arent government buildings is seen similarly in france as english flags are in england as they have simar racist and colonialist history

People like to travel abroad to experience “the other”. Taking an interest in a country’s traditions is just that. You’re an observer noting differences in how another country does things. It doesn’t mean that you’re in awe of them necessarily.

I’d guess that most visitors to Britain find the royal stuff fascinating because they don’t have it where they’re from. Or because a lot of it is familiar from fairy tales and Disney films. Eg palaces, footmen, crowns, robes, coaches etc. If people are brought up on these things in stories from a very young age, it must seem very quaint to visit a country that still has them.

I remember watching 2 Japanese teenage girls taking a ride in a horse and carriage at Hampton Court about 30 years ago. They were giggling ecstatically, so excited. It must have been very different to anything they had in their own country, but it must have seemed very similar to things like Cinderella. I can understand people finding it all very interesting in that way. However I’m sure they’d find all the privy council protocol exceedingly boring.

we’ll have a bland pick and mix of everyone else’s culture instead

I think that the impact of immigration and the change in - especially food - has opened us up to some great experiences.

I was watching Rick Stein in India and he was talking about how when people from the UK came over in Victorian times, they would incorporate Indian foods and spices into British food. Same for other cultures - integrating foods from other cultures into our own.

Personally I love the wide variety of food available in the UK. I do like a stew though. But not liver.

I spent xmas in spain a few years ago and it was very obvious where the brits were living. They seemed to insist on having a british christmas, almost like the spanish werent sticking up for spanish xmases enough

Absolutely.

I travelled through Nepal - with Dhaal Bhaat. Something that many people eat everyday over there.

But people do like meat. Liver, kidney, heart....actually not too bad in a stew.

re flags. We’ve just been to the US for the first time. I loved seeing how many flags were displayed on everyone’s houses. I mean, they were EVERYWHERE. They fly them with pride and why not? WE are the weird ones in this country. Is it a shame about the empire or something? Can’t understand it.

And they shout "USA, USA at events like the World Series etc! And pledge to the USA every morning at school. And have massive fireworks at the Independence Day events.

I guess they were just pleased to be rid of us.

Meh, I have a grinch-like disregard for religion and tradition no matter where I am. I will respect it, but I don't find it particularly beautiful.
You probably need to separate 'religion' and 'church / leadership / administration'. Most religions promote the Golden Rule - which I think falls into the "beautiful" category - but the leadership don't apply it.

So fly your flag then? There’s no law stopping you.

the problem is the Union Jack is now too closely associated with royal events for my liking. And I’m not a royalist sooo…..

Derided by who? English people themselves! Other cultures don’t question their folk dances or care if others ‘deride’ them, or wait for approval, they just get on with it and celebrate it.

The English never shut up about how great their culture is but then bleat about how they’re “ not allowed” to celebrate it.

@cakeorwine I love offal, always have. But I wouldn't like to go back to preparing it in just the old school liver and onions ways. I remember school dinners in the late 70s - no thanks.

I love folk dances of all descriptions, morris included. Not naff in the least. However, I hate ostentatious flag-waving. The way the USA handles its flags and its daily pledge of allegiance in schools just smacks of rabid nationalism to me and that is never a good thing.

@senua churches are beautiful. I have visited many. Religion isn't for me.

I'm in Berlin on a break and everyone has mentioned it and they are very respectful and interested,

The English never shut up about how great their culture is but then bleat about how they’re “ not allowed” to celebrate it

in fairness that’s not every English person, that’s a very specific subset of xenophobic perpetual victim who thinks ‘traditional English’ is all cricket whites and scones on the village green ime. They continuously fail to understand that being able to recognise other cultures different to their own means that they absolutely do have a distinct culture. Like the point made earlier, it’s not noticed and appreciated because it’s just normal life to them.

The loss of the the empire

Did you mean to write “the liberation of colonized peoples from brutal foreign rule” ?

One person's loss is another person's gain of freedom and all....