To ask why people vote Tory?

[Tierne]

It has to be said that life in the UK on low or middle income is much harder than it seemingly is in other western countries of similar wealth. I dont think the Tory party is making this country a nice place to live in at all. But they keep getting voted in.

So if you vote Tory:
Why do you vote for them?
Would you ever change your vote and for what reason?
Do you feel uncomfortable at how Tory policies batter the most vulnerable in our society? For example making it impossible for people to get on the housing ladder, high rents and low tenant protections, no energy bill caps, etc?

NB: I dont want this to turn into a Tory bashing thread. I'd just like to hear how Tory supporters feel about their party.

This, I can't imagine anyone actually thinks they are good. Unfortunately all the others are just as bad, only in different ways.

Can I ask a question to the posters on here, who have accused people of "wanting children/old people to starve/freeze to death" maybe @Univalve ?

Where do you expect an argument like that to lead? Are you expecting people to say 'oh my gosh, you're right! I DO want children to die, I'd better vote labour, thanks Univalve!"

or are you wanting to shut down the argument so you never have to hear a counter one and have your views challenged? I can't imagine this as I don't understand why you would not want to have your views challenged, is there a reason?

I get it if you're under 25 and have not developed critical thinking or reasoning skills but really, if you're over your mid 20's you should be able to give a better contribution to the debate than "you want children to die!"

When you vote in an election you are picking the party who you think will be the least bad option. Here, the realistic choice is Labour or Conservative, and I've been screwed over more by the Labour party than I have been by the Tories. FWIW I couldn't bring myself to vote for them at the last election, but none of the alternatives were acceptable either. A vote for the Lib Dems, UKIP or the (so called) Greens is a waste of time.

People in Scotland at least have the choice of the SNP as a viable "fuck you" vote. Down here there isn't an option other than Tory or Labour, and while I might not always vote Tory, I'd sure as hell never vote Labour. Labour screwed me so many times during the Blair/Brown years, saddling me with student debt, leaving me unable to buy a home until my mid 30s because of the Labour housing crisis, and condemning me to a decade of pay stagnation because of the Labour financial crash. I'm badly off under the Tories, but worse off under Labour.

Same, I imagine this is a huge chunk of the population.

That’s interesting, I read an article in the telegraph the other day calling for a windfall tax. I’m guessing you would support such a measure?

Using terfdom as a scapegoat is also unhinged too

The ones screaming 'TERF!' at the mere uttering of 'women's rights' are the unhinged ones. Irony isn't lost here.

@Univalve I can't work out how to quote your post back but in response to your point, no of course I do not want to see children starve, I believe that it is the purpose and duty of a society to ensure people look after those less fortunate than themselves and I do not begrudge paying tax to support those who need it. However, I also believe that benefits should be a safety net and the answer does not always lie in just handing out more and more cash over the long term. I am sorry if that view is abhorrent to you but it is my opinion and portraying me as some sort of cruel capitalist monster is not going to change my mind. The money simply wouldn't be there without people like me paying into the pot.

👏 👏

I wouldn't touch them with a barge pole. Then again, I'm not a fan of holding the economy to ransom, while driving two jags.

@toryinthecloset is there a particular reason why you name changed for this thread?

I changed it because I know things get heated when discussing politics and if I'm going to get called Tory scum I'd rather it just happens on this thread.

There isn't really a good alternative, maybe that will change but it hasn't yet

I don't vote Tory, and I find the "there's no credible alternative" rhetoric intensely lazy.

However, ultimately the vast majority of people vote in ways that they think will most benefit themselves, their families, their communities etc. If there are long standing MPs (of any party) who have a good reputation for doing a good job for their constituents, then why would people choose to change them? Then, of course, there are those who vote as their parents did, because they trust their parents' advice/life view, and have never had reason to question it as it's served them well to this point.

I don't think voting choices are as deep as some people seem to believe they are.

Who do you think would be a credible alternative then PollyEsther ?

Quite right. I just don't get the bizarre mentality of saying to someone
"Look you scummy, evil piece of shit, you have to stop doing what you think is best for you and your equally shitty, evil family, and vote how I tell you to, OK you evil child killing scum?!"

i think "why do you vote Tory" is the wrong question, tbh.
Since there is a Tory government, i do think there is some merit in asking what the people who voted for that government think they will, or have, delivered.

I don't think most politicians go into (UK) politics with the sole aim of enriching themselves, although some (maybe even a significant number) do exactly that.
Most politicians actually believe they want to improve a country's wealth and conditions, but i think they all have different ideas of a) what that actually means and b) how to achieve that.

I doubt most people vote for anyone thinking "yeah, they'll reduce my standard of living", and more believe that the policies they lay out are a way to improve or maintain that standard of living. I know people who vote Tory because they honestly don't understand our taxation system and are utterly convinced that the Labour party will take 50% of all they earn from the first pound. Others think they really are the party of law and order. Or because they think they have a better handle on immigration Or will improve schools and education. Or will improve the NHS (even if it is by privatising it - if people think it will be easier to see a GP or get treatment for something, why would they care how that is actually achieved?).

Some people believe all the scare stories about privatising the NHS, some don't. Same for all other issues.

So what i really want to know is: if you've been voting for the government over the last 12 years, have they delivered on any of the reasons for doing so? (and just saying "well, they're not Labour" won't cut it with me because that is not an answer)

I don’t vote Tory, I never have, and I don’t think I ever will, but I also don’t think Tory voters are thick, uneducated or racist, in my mind that’s a lazy, thick argument in itself to be honest.

People vote for the party they believe will benefit themselves & their families, the same way I vote for a party that I believe in, even if I don’t agree with their vote, I’m not arrogant enough to think everyone must think the same as me and vote the same as me.

@Brefugee
So what i really want to know is: if you've been voting for the government over the last 12 years, have they delivered on any of the reasons for doing so?

That's a great question

There's no simplistic answer to that, though? It's entirely individual dependent on a person's political views, background, priorities. But people are fundamentally lazy and, rather than read manifestos, speak to candidates in their areas etc, they just consume mainstream media/social media and base their view on the Red V Blue dichotomy, rather than doing any research into the plethora of alternatives and finding something that fits them.

FPTP doesn't help, it's not a representative system.

I agree with you @PollyEsther about 'people voting in "ways that will benefit themselves their families and their communities" but what is wrong with that?

Are there other reasons to vote for a particular party or MP?

The way the left spouts this off (not saying you did in your post but its a common rhetoric that 'everyone who votes tory votes selfishly') suggests that they (the left/labour voters) vote purely altruistically and make themselves worse off because they're so kind.

All the Prosecco/champagne socialists I know, claim they would be happy to pay more tax but they never actually do it, (tax thresholds are a minimum not a maximum) but they wouldn't want to down grade their homes, or compromise on their holidays and often rather lovely lifestyles.

thanks @Tierne

People vote for the party they believe will benefit themselves & their families, the same way I vote for a party that I believe in, even if I don’t agree with their vote, I’m not arrogant enough to think everyone must think the same as me and vote the same as me.

That is why i think my question is better, because even if they don't answer, at least the seed of the idea is sown to provoke a bit of thought over this. I think it's the same for any government or vote, though, so i am not dissing Tory voters here.

I really wish this kind of thing was taught at school. To make a kind of cost/benefit approach to how to cast your vote (on all kinds of things - pizza or chinese takeaway? weigh up the pros and cons). But people need to be honest with themselves. It is ok to vote in your own best interest, or your family's own interest, but people should be honest at least to themselves about that.

Thanks for confirming what I thought. Says it all when you have to do that but I understand why, having been subjected to the same disgusting treatment...many times.

I don’t only vote in self interest tbh I think of what I think will benefit the economy

Obviously this won’t be agreed upon as Labour supporters will see it differently which is up to them

But yes self interest is there for Labour voters too - maybe they are paid by the state and would prefer an increase and same for Cons voters who might see it as better for tax or business etc

Oh I agree with you, I didn't mean to sound as if I thought voting in your own interest was selfish, I actually don't believe it is necessarily 'selfish' in the really nasty sense of the word. The vast majority of this country aren't wealthy enough to vote philanthropically. Besides which, it's no less selfish to vote Left if that's in your interest than it is to vote Right!

I just meant, in general, that the vast majority of people really aren't that political/deep in their thinking. They just want to have food, homes, jobs and opportunities etc and vote according to who they think will best deliver that for them.

Some people, because they are highly politically informed or enjoy analysing these things, think everyone has the same level of interest. In my experience, most people really don't give that many fucks who's in charge, provided they're not having the piss taken out of them repeatedly.

But... voting to benefit the economy is in your self interest. It's in all of ours... It's really no different??