To complain the SCOPAY system is sexist?

[Botharms]

The schools here use SCOPAY to collect payments for lunch, trips etc.
My problem is they only send one link out to register, which only allows one parent/guardian to register.
For the second parent to register they have to hassle the school to send a second link and wait for them to get round to it.

With separated parents, the "secondary parent" often doesn't know they've not been sent the email asking them to sign up until it's too late.
For parents who live together the "secondary parent" still has to go in and pester the school, and parents often don't get round to it (it's a hassle and you don't want to bother the school and be seen as a problem parent) - so all the responsibility and admin falls on to the "primary parent".

Where this becomes sexist and appears to break the 2010 Equalities Act is that the "primary parent" is disproportionately the mother - or is assumed to be the mother by the school. So although SCOPAY haven't directly set out to dump more work and responsibility on mums and exclude dads that is the indirect effect of their system.

I know SCOPAY isn't setting out to be sexist, but it's pretty obvious that more childcare/child admin is done by mums, and that with separated parents the "primary parent" is normally the mother (even if there's shared care the school tends to assume it's the mother)

It would be simple to resolve - just send out 2 registration links for every child, or at least send out 2 links for every child with 2 registered adults.

I was this PP. And this is the workaround that works.

However, I do find it baffling that on threads like these people are almost offended at the very idea that the world, systems, companies, schools, society etc could do better. Just because there’s a workaround doesn’t mean we should all just accept that.

Why can’t Scopay and Parentpay and all the other similar systems marketed to schools and clubs have 2 default users/addresses? The default assumption should be that children have 2 equal & involved parents, not that they have 1 ‘primary’ default parent.

Schools should put pressure on the companies they buy services from to do better. Parents should put pressure on
schools to do better.

I don’t know why people don’t think this would be a good thing.

Can someone clarify for me why assuming the primary parent is the mother isn't sexist.

It's not discrimination, direct or indirect because the choice of who to name as the primary parent is made by the parents themselves. If the system defaulted to mum as primary parent then that might be indirect discrimination but the system works on the information provided. There doesn't seem to be any reason why people can't list the child's dad as the primary parent for this purpose if they want to.

If anything it is the secondary parent who is discriminated against which by your reckoning is normally the dad. Primary parent gets everything easily sorted for them, secondary parent is the one deprived of information and has to put effort in to be specifically added to the system.

I agree it sounds a bit inefficient but really really cannot see the discrimation.

I think what's most sexist is assuming that children have just one parent who is involved with their day to day arrangements and admin rather than two.

Surely its down to the parents to work out who does what between them. Its not an apps job to validate relationship statuses. Or divide chores accordingly.Its for communication and payment.

Maybe they should send three links for the throuples?

4 links for the the now two families ?

6 if the grandparents are heavily involved too?

Don’t be silly.

Children have 2 parents (barring a tiny percentage of lone parents who use a donor and always intend to parent alone).

Therefore the default assumption of app developers should be that there will be 2 users per child.

Whether those children end up with two parents who want to be involved (through household management/division of responsibilities or divorce or death or whatever) or only one, or four because of grandparents or nannies or whatever is not the app developers concern, but the starting point should be

this is an app aimed at parents managing children’s activities.
So how many users should attach to each child as standard?

= two

It's not the schools fault that women can't trust their husbands to submit the school applications.

But what use is 2 lots if notifications anyway. You'd have to talk eachother anyway. Or you'd both end up ordering book day costumes without realising. Or attempting to book things at different times.

Surely you both write what notifications fir whatever apps you divide up between you on a family calender then decide who does what.

Are you one of those perfect mums who's in the playground 5 minutes early every day and never misses anything?
I'm not, sometimes we forget stuff don't spot the email, get confused etc.
A notification to both parents helps - as does the mums' whatsapp group, and reminders from the lollipop lady and other parents in the playground.

For parents who are together (as I am for my youngest child) neither of us are infallible so it's good we both get the messages. For separated parents who share care (me for my older children) it's vital both are included by default.

I wish....

Xp gets notifications from dd1s school as well as me. It's a pain in the arse if I'm trying to sort something and he's messaging me asking what's going on with it. Or he thinks I'm dealing but he said he'd deal with it and ultimately its more stressful.

By all means divide up who has what . But 2 lots of notifications just means an extra person to have to deal with on top of dealing with whatever the notifications was about....

If you are together then use the joint email.

If your not then it just seems to open up opportunities to make things harder work than they need to be.

It hardly being ‘perfect’ to be a bit organised around your children’s schooling, the poster was right to suggest it. You’d be organised with work tasks, school things are just as important for things to go smoothly for your children. If you are relying on a lollipop lady to remind you about what’s happening in your own child’s life, something has to change. 🤯

This is such nonsense.

I work in a school and have just sent our ParentPay activation letters.

I send to both parents as a default. Our MIS actually lists ‘Father’ as the primary contact.

I would say a very conservative 80% of parents who register are mothers.

I work in a primary school & we ask the parents to list their own priority on our application form- so you both be the Primary - both get all our emails unless you unsubcribe. If you don't list, then we assume the parent the child lives with is the Primary Guardian(s). We've moved away from Scopay but they don't have any IT reason to stop both parents being listed as the Primary Guardian / getting all the emails - it's how your school is listing / uploading their data.

Though School Office do have a reason for being "sexist" - at least 80% of our Primary Guardians are the the mother & many of the Dads unsubscribe from emails a few weeks after their children join the school. My DH does get all the school emails as we have a shared email address / inbox but I

I work in a school & we allow both parents to nominate themselves as the a Primary Guardian & receive our (many, many) emails. Scopay isn't sexist - they definitely allow more than one Primary Guardian to be listed - it's your school's office's decision to list one parent over another.

Historically & even now the majority of the Primary Guardians are the mothers & the fathers often unsubscribe from emails after a few weeks of term. My DH gets all my kids mails as we have a shared email but I know it's me that reads them as standard & have to kick him to g

For dsc we get school emails.

But for scopay their dm had the link. Rhe school won't let us have one. Apparently they only do 1.
Their dm wont allow us the log in detail ( likes to feel power. Long t history of it)
So then requesta we pay in her bank for trips etc for her to pay. Only then to find out she gets FSM and reduced trips.
Some like the upper hand

Ahh double posting on phone!!!!! Sorry - my point is the software isn't sexist, your Office is but with good reason. Email them & request you are also listed as a 1 & we'll happily keep in the loop. We DO want as many parents as possible to read our comms

They don’t seem to have done that, so it’s not really a relevant question. The parents choose which contact to put first.

It’s not “vital”, you can still communicate with each other, but if even that is too much trouble then just use a shared email address.

It’s not the school’s job to deal with a pupil’s parents lack of responsibility.

YANBU: as others have said, it seems like indirect discrimination.

Indirect discrimination happens when an organisation has a particular policy or way of working that applies in the same way to both sexes but which puts you at a disadvantage because of your sex.

Are the schools who use SCOPAY in your area state schools?

I have nothing to do with scopay. I have enough of the mental load. Dh has always been the one in charge of scopay. I just forwarded him the link.

do as a pp suggested and both download the app. It doesnt need to be this difficult.’

because the person who completes the application to the school makes that decision, not the school.

i competed my nephew’s school application. I certainly didnt put myself down as primary contact.

That's a bit harsh. How is pointing out a flawed system being desperate to be a victim?

The assumption from Scopay (and several posters here) that there's one primary parent and it's fine to exclude the other parent, is irritating. It disproportionately excludes dads, and it disproportionately dumps more work on mums.

Yes it can be solved by having a joint account if you're happy to share an email address (less likely after divorce although you could set up one that instantly forwards emails to both parents).

Yes it can be solved by asking the school for a second set of log in details, but there's always a delay and I've now had to do this 5 times at 2 different schools.

I'm not claiming to be a victim, I'm just raising an issue of minor sexism that harms both men and women. It's just one of the many little sexist things that gradually promote/reflect our society's view that women should concentrate on childcare and it's ok/expected for men to take a back seat. If we don't push back we're left with "women should know their place - at home with children and men should know theirs - at work earning money and leaving childcare to women".

Again it's not a big deal, just an irritation, First Direct's policy to refuse to acknowledge women's earnings as significant as men's when calculating mortgages is far more significant, then in the wider scheme of things there's food and fuel prices, war, floods and famine.

In practice the school often makes that descision and chooses the mother regardless of how the form is filled in.

In addition simply having a concept of a primary parent and excluding the secondary parent is indirect sexism.

No, they don't.

An Admissions Transfer File is downloaded from the local authority admissions portal, which contains only the applicant's details. The ATF is then imported into the MIS to set them up on the school system.

After the new pupils are added to the system, it is possible for data gathering to take place where parents can add a second parent's details and state who is to be the primary contact. but this may not happen until after admission, depending upon whether it's done manually or online via a communications app. It's good practice not to include parental contact details when subsequently importing the Common Transfer File from the primary school, as many, many families have a habit of moving between the closing date for applications to the local authority and the date of admission - not necessarily for nefarious purposes related to catchment areas, but just because more people move in the Spring and Summer and the end of the primary stage is a good time for them to do so.

As such, the new school doesn't even have any details of a second parent when working flat out to create the accounts during the period immediately prior to enrolment - not much point doing it earlier because there's also always a huge amount of churn in places over summer, partly due to the aforementioned tendency to move in the first half of the calendar year and partly due to the outcome of admissions appeals, decisions to educate privately, moving up waiting lists at higher preference school and sometimes people just changing their minds about their preferred school since application.

They aren't deliberately choosing to make Mum responsible for everything - it's that they do not have any data provided to them to the contrary.

Any delay once term starts is something to do with the first weeks of term being dealing with no shows - because people have moved or gone to other schools and it's the law to wait until a new school confirms that the child is at that school physically before they can be removed. That and depending upon the type of school, it may also be the start of the new financial year, which anybody with financial experience will appreciate is the busiest time of the year for all finance staff.

Easier to say 'oh, they're being sexist' than go through that explanation. But you didn't want to listen to a suggestion that it wouldn't usually be the mother if more fathers completed the original applications.

@JulesCobb
*
because the person who completes the application to the school makes that decision, not the school.

i competed my nephew’s school application. I certainly didnt put myself down as primary contact.*

Maybe I didn't make myself clear.

The OP and others feel that scopay are sexist because they only allow one parent and that parent is usually the mother.

My question is how come the op assuming the primary parent is the mother isn't the one being sexist?