This Is Going to Hurt

[Wouldloveanother]

I read this book a while ago but just re-skimmed it while bedridden with pregnancy sickness. I’d forgotten how funny it is, although the ending is tragic and poignant. I thought it gave a really good insight into the pressures on maternity staff and why it’s not always realistic for us to have the exact care we want in labour. I think it’s a shame he left medicine, but can see how he lost his nerve and didn’t feel able to go back. Anyone else read it?

@Wouldloveanother No a doctor would only be responsible for an adverse outcome if it was their own choices and negligence that lead to it happening. They do not have ownership over a woman’s body and a woman is not compelled to give consent for anything. If a woman with capacity would not give consent and that lead to an adverse outcome then that would not be the responsibility of the doctor.

The Montgomery case was a dr doing exactly what Kay thinks is good care. It wasn’t so much the adverse outcome but the fact the woman had not been able to make an informed decision, not spoken to about alternatives or given non-bias information.

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/metoo-birth-room-consent-give-birth-like-a-feminist-milli-hill-a9069281.html

This is a very good article about consent

Oh, did you not notice the misogyny?

This

Quite heartening to see about two thirds on this thread agreeing that it is misogyny

threads on the books a few years back had far more support for him so I think more and more are seeing it

When you have so many women (not just on here but other platforms) saying ‘we are women this is offensive, this is misogynistic’ then you have to accept something is wrong with the book

Jesus christ. That made me feel physically sick.

We had a male midwife (along with female and male doctors) during our very long and complicated birth and he was absolutely exemplary, the most compassionate care imaginable. Helped with DC's first latch. This guy gives men working in obs and gynae a bad name, no doubt contributes to discrimination against them at work too.

That’s false.

the patient’s husband says to dr Kay that he’s ‘wearing her like a puppet’.

He is a misogynistic knob

end of

HTH

crikey and people are saying he’s directive and closed to the opinions of others!

It’s behind a pay wall but I would like to read it

some arrogant nobs on this thread as usual

So I do understand where he is coming from - this is what I recommend, why should I take responsibility for what I know to be the wrong decision?

It is also rarely the case of one ‘right decision’ that the doctor already knows.
There are often different choices to discuss, different doctors may even have different opinions on the ‘right’ thing to do.

Women will have different priorities eg are happier with the risks of a planned cesarean and not an induced birth because of their own values, wants and needs.
If somebody claims that isn’t important and women don’t need to input over their own bodies and lives then that is concerning.

@Wouldloveanother not a pay wall just press the ‘maybe later’ button on the pop up :)

OP are YOU Adam Kay?

Women are entitled to view his behaviour as the same deeply misogynistic shit they have to put up with from doctors all the time.

The article is a bit of a read but loved this line (referring to non-consensual care in labour like vaginal exams)-

There is a sense of entitlement to be found in moments like this, with echoes of rape culture: a real confusion over whose needs come first, and who has ownership of the body in question and is permitted to do as they wish with it.

Interestingly I read a post on here not that long ago where a woman was complaining about her labour, saying she felt somebody ‘should’ve taken control’ of her situation and not left her to make the decisions as she was in too much pain etc to really be able to think anything through.

There was also another thread by a mum saying a choice shouldn’t have been given to her, or at least they should’ve emphasised what they thought she should’ve done, as she felt she chose the wrong option.

I don’t think they’ll ever be able to strike the exact right balance.

Yes, you got me 🙄

You’re certainly an Adam kay apologist. Weird.

he’s hateful and has utter contempt for women.

Exactly this! It’s a coping mechanism. Dark humour has got me through many a tough shift. I keep it away from the patients. And I save the tears for when I get home.

I'm not sure he is a misogynist for his views on his patients. I think if he had chosen a different medical speciality his descriptions and views on his patients and his black humour would be the same, but across both sexes.

I find as someone who has work in the NHS for 2 decades that it gives a useful and realistic, if extremely uncomfortable, insight in to the NHS, its staff and the humour we use to cope, SPOILER ALERT the staff ain't saintly!

Interestingly if you google pre-reading lists for medical degrees at a range of uni's 'This is going to hurt' features on multiple lists.

I read it. I didn't find any of it funny? It was really unsettling. The way he talks about people (and more so women) in the book is part of why many people don't trust HCP's. Doctors and specifically obs and gynae (brats and twats? also not exactly the pinnacle of humour) are with women at one of the most vulnerable moments of their lives. Birth trauma is prevalent and yet we're giving men like him a platform, nay, a BBC tv series.

I've neither the time nor the energy to even start on his 'band' and the 'songs' they wrote.

If apologist means I don’t think he’s the devil incarnate, or even a misogynist, then I guess I am 🤷🏼‍♀️

He was on 8 out of 10 cats, and (I thought) very funny.
The story about the woman putting the string of christmas lights up her vagina and then turning them on to see if her and her partner could 'see' them was...enlightening.
'Gives new meaning to the phrase - darling, I've put the christmas lights up myself'!

I agree the book is misogynistic.

the TV series is more nuanced - I suspect due to the skill and empathy of Ben Whishaw as an actor.

Couldn’t agree more. Awful way to speak about women and shows why we’re treated as slabs of meat.