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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

What to do about bad midwife experience?

101 replies

NotAgainPleased · 03/09/2022 23:10

Tricky and sensitive situation.

I’m a woman in a same sex relationship and am currently pregnant with our second child.

Wife had the first baby, at a big London teaching hospital where the care was generally really good, aside from the fact that it was covid and restrictions around going for appointments together etc applied. We did however have a few incidents of staff being clearly homophobic and I’m feeling quite scared that this is going to happen again with me and worried it will make what is already going to be a stressy birth (Im classed as high risk because of a medical condition) a really traumatic experience. The complicating factor is that the three staff who gave us a difficult time were all West African, and I know homophobia is more of an issue in parts of West Africa than it is here, so it feels like a bit of a common denominator. (Yes I do know they were West African, I’ve lived in Liberia and Ghana for a few months each, and I know the accents. Had an amazing time, aside from having to stay back in the closet.)

The worst incident was with one of the midwives who looked after us during my wife’s labour. She was only with us for two hours as was covering a break. A few examples of what happened though, firstly she asked me twice who I was and why I was there and once where the father was, despite me explaining that I was DW’s wife and the soon to arrive baby’s other parent and that there was no father. She said after each time I explained “I don’t know what you mean” then afterwards referred to me as DW’s friend or helper. Lots of dark looks when I was holding DW’s hand. And most upsetting of all when I was helping DW by changing the bed pad things they put under you to catch the amniotic fluid she actually physically knocked my hand away from DW, and snapped “I am the midwife, I look after the mother, you go and stand up there at other end by her head.” This last bit was so upsetting I had to quickly dash to the bathroom for a two minute cry, which I didn’t want to do in front of DW, before returning. We had both been awake for two days by this point, so the crying was unavoidable and I stopped very quickly and went back to DW. Had I been less tired / not where we were I might have pointed out that I was pretty well acquainted with DW’s nether regions and did not need to stay up by her head. Didn’t say anything at the time as she was only covering someone’s break and I didn’t want her to stop caring for DW somehow and soon we were being looked after by someone else who took us through to the end and was amazing.

Other incidents we had were with two staff members on the front desk of the maternity unit. (this was covid so for scans etc the pregnant one went up, waited to be called while partner hovered. Pregnant one then texted partner when called for appointment saying come up now at which point you went up to the front desk staff and signed in and got a pass). We saw both these two staff members twice for different scans and check ups and both got visibly confused when I had to go up to the desk and explain that my wife was upstairs waiting for her scan, and yes I was her wife not a sister. Cue the staff saying “I don’t understand who are you?” “If you are the wife why are you not upstairs getting the scan?” and “Fathers and partners only allowed upstairs.”

I’m worried something like this will happen again, but don’t really know how to try to preempt it without saying something that could come across as pretty racist. All three staff that gave us a hard time were definitely West African, and I know, from the news, as well as from having lived there that homophobia is a big thing. Not at all saying all first gen West Africans are homophobic or that no white people / people from other backgrounds are, but the reality is that was our experience and I don’t want a repeat of it while I’m in labour.

So what the bloody hell do I do? Nothing and hope for the best? Say something general about having had a bad experience with some seemingly prejudiced staff last time and not mention why or who?

OP posts:
RunningSME · 05/09/2022 14:56

ilyx · 05/09/2022 14:55

They will still be interacting with the father and so can be homophobic towards him 🤦‍♀️

“Took the bait”?! You need help. Get off mumsnet and go outside.

@ilyx oh typically the male experience within a maternity setting is extremely different.

Arsewangry · 05/09/2022 14:58

Blimey I'm astounded that this ignorance still exists to be honest. You're hardly the first SS spouses to have a child together. I'm sorry that it tainted your experience of your DC's birth, you'd be well within your rights to place a complaint as training refresh is required at bare minimum, disciplinary action otherwise. Congratulations to you both on becoming mums Flowers

SlowHandClap · 05/09/2022 14:59

Nothing to add except congratulations and I hope everything goes well
Some people are just shits

YelloCar · 05/09/2022 15:00

I was just really glad to just get out of there with a baby in one piece
Again, it is possible for this to happen and also not be treated like shit. It’s not an ‘either or’ situation. Get some respect for yourself and stop telling other women to ignore things like homophobia.

cherrysthename · 05/09/2022 15:02

You sound so very angry, Running

LuckySantangelo35 · 05/09/2022 15:04

RunningSME · 05/09/2022 14:54

@LuckySantangelo35 course it’s not okay and as I said we had a laugh about it afterwards how very funny it was that it was not okay that they made that comment.
However, and this may be why there are cultural differences described in the original OP I was just really glad to just get out of there with a baby in one piece and I’d imagine if you ask most women from different continents they feel quite a similar way. we’re not there to have an experience, we are not there to have an Instagram moment it’s a medical setting and a good medical outcome is really the main focus of the event anything else is a bonus.

@RunningSME

big difference between Instagram experience and having to put up with hideous misogyny from
health care professionals don’t you think?

it’s not hard to get people not to make this kind of comments - just tell people not to make sexist misogynistic comments. Tell them not be a twat basically

in your situation, you were there as a person worthy of care and respect from
professiomalS every bit as much as your baby

Attitudes like yours is why women suffer horrendous birth injuries with ongoing issues like incontinence etc and no one gives a shit because of the “all that matters is a healthy baby and u should be grateful for that and complain” trope

BelleMarionette · 05/09/2022 15:04

Op do make a complaint via Pals about the homophobia. They will be able to find out the specific midwives names from your notes.

Don't feel pressured into hiding your same sex relationship. This is absolutely appalling, and I'm shocked anyone would suggest.

I would suggest a discreet conversation with the midwife coordinator when admitted in the future, to alert them of your previous experiences, and importance of inclusive care.

Bestcatmum · 05/09/2022 15:06

Marvellousmadness · 04/09/2022 05:15

So.. they were homophobic and you went racist
Both beneath what it should be

Either you need to rise above the rediculous and petty comments or tell them she is your sister Or something

Because they wont change
But your sistuation of having to give birth wont
So you are the one that needs to change either your mindset by blockimg them out
Or having your partner immediately go above the head of the nurses if they are being homophobic.
Or just play dress up for the sake of mental peace.

The most important thing is a healthy baby

But it wont be a "traumatic" birth due to homophobia op. It could be a shitty birth for sure. But thats why you shouldnt let them in your head
You need to rise above
And have your partner advocate for you

I had my partner do all the talking in the hospital and i head my headset on with music
I couldnt hear the world. Bliss.

So they had a bad experience with a different culture and they are rascist now.
That's both extremely unkind and also untrue and certainly a whole load of rubbish.
ALL NHS staff including myself have to keep our personal opinions OUT of the medical treatment, if there are staff who can't do that then they should not be working in a hospital no matter who they are and where they come from!
It would have been a fine thing if when I worked for 10 years in a prison medical centre I decided I wasn't treating paedophiles or anyone else I didn't fancy treating. You simply don't have the luxury of bring predjudices or dislikes to work with you if you choose to go into an NHS profession. End of.

ilyx · 05/09/2022 15:09

RunningSME · 05/09/2022 14:56

@ilyx oh typically the male experience within a maternity setting is extremely different.

The thread is about homophobia and you got upset about me using the word “gay people” because you’re clearly perpetually online and think it’s this weird attack on women or something, I have no idea. The midwives were still homophobic towards the OP’s wife who is not pregnant or receiving maternity care, they can still be homophobic towards gay male couples, and homophobia isn’t acceptable towards anyone so that’s why she should complain as she won’t be the last victim of this.

NotAgainPleased · 05/09/2022 15:12

RunningSME · 05/09/2022 14:54

@LuckySantangelo35 course it’s not okay and as I said we had a laugh about it afterwards how very funny it was that it was not okay that they made that comment.
However, and this may be why there are cultural differences described in the original OP I was just really glad to just get out of there with a baby in one piece and I’d imagine if you ask most women from different continents they feel quite a similar way. we’re not there to have an experience, we are not there to have an Instagram moment it’s a medical setting and a good medical outcome is really the main focus of the event anything else is a bonus.

Yes I wasn’t looking for an “Instagram moment”. Just for me and my partner to be treated with basic respect and human dignity by our midwife, instead of which we got her repeatedly refusing to understand who I was and why I was there, making her disapproval clear and physically slapping my hands away when I was trying to help and comfort my labouring wife.

Even if you do insist on taking the “all that matters is a healthy baby and that everything goes medically okay” road. My point still stands.

When you’re in labour you produce oxytocin, which helps your contractions get stronger, and blanks out some of the pain and makes you feel motivated to keep pushing. If oxytocin is inhibited your contractions slow down and you feel more hopeless, putting your baby at risk of stress, trauma, oxygen deprivation and stillbirth. If you are made to feel more anxious, frightened or stressed in your labour you produce more Epinephrine and norepinephrine which inhibit oxytocin.

So even if a midwife’s only job is to attend to your baby’s physical need to be born safely, then by making her patients feel judged, anxious and stressed she is not doing her job from a medical perspective as she’s making it less likely you’ll have a complication free birth and a healthy baby.

OP posts:
Hvergelmir · 05/09/2022 15:23

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Bait? So not only are you coming on a thread where the OP wants advice and support to hell her that homophovia isn't that bad actually but you admit you're making goady, baiting comments in the hope it'll turn into a bullfight about a completely different topic?

Hvergelmir · 05/09/2022 15:27

This reply has been withdrawn

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

NotAgainPleased · 05/09/2022 15:33

NotAgainPleased · 05/09/2022 15:12

Yes I wasn’t looking for an “Instagram moment”. Just for me and my partner to be treated with basic respect and human dignity by our midwife, instead of which we got her repeatedly refusing to understand who I was and why I was there, making her disapproval clear and physically slapping my hands away when I was trying to help and comfort my labouring wife.

Even if you do insist on taking the “all that matters is a healthy baby and that everything goes medically okay” road. My point still stands.

When you’re in labour you produce oxytocin, which helps your contractions get stronger, and blanks out some of the pain and makes you feel motivated to keep pushing. If oxytocin is inhibited your contractions slow down and you feel more hopeless, putting your baby at risk of stress, trauma, oxygen deprivation and stillbirth. If you are made to feel more anxious, frightened or stressed in your labour you produce more Epinephrine and norepinephrine which inhibit oxytocin.

So even if a midwife’s only job is to attend to your baby’s physical need to be born safely, then by making her patients feel judged, anxious and stressed she is not doing her job from a medical perspective as she’s making it less likely you’ll have a complication free birth and a healthy baby.

I actually do have quite a lot of experience of asking women from other continents about their experience of birth and what mattered to them @RunningSME.

Part of the reason I’ve lived in some west African countries for a bit, is that I worked for a development NGO that funded pre and post natal care programmes for women in very poor areas and displaced persons camps. I’ve interviewed hundreds of women, across Africa, Asia and South East Asia as a way to gather stories about the impact having access to midwives had on their birth experience and outcomes.

Yes they all wanted a safe birth and a live baby, but they all also hugely appreciated and respected the kindness, support and empathy of the midwives who were with them. There were often as few as four midwives looking after a population of up to 20,000 women in places where women commonly had many children starting young. And the midwives still all spoke about the importance of supporting the mothers and making them feel strong and cared for and the mothers very often said they felt the kind of love and respect towards the midwives that they did towards their own mothers.

OP posts:
cherrysthename · 05/09/2022 15:33

Oh ignore that poster, OP. She's clearly either got the world's lowest standards for herself and therefore thinks you should, too. Or as I suspect, is actually more affected by the disgusting treatment she received than she cares to admit. I highly doubt she was really sat around laughing afterwards, really. So sad but no need to take it out on anyone else.
It's women who are the patients, anyway. All this 'having a live baby is the only objective' and 'all that matters' is SUCH bullshit.

RedHelenB · 05/09/2022 15:44

@notagainpleased. That must be something new, I've never known midwives ask the birthing partners to change pads before. I know they may ask a birthing partner to help support a leg or something, or if you want to be at the business end when baby is born.But I still think its common sense not to get in the mw's way until you are asked

Nursemumma92 · 05/09/2022 15:54

@RunningSME how sad that your attitude is as it is. Absolutely disgusting your attitude of 'as long as you leave with a healthy baby that's all that matters'. Everyone absolutely has the right to be treated with respect while they are being treated by health professionals. The reason the NHS is falling apart is not because of complaints of being treated poorly, but because of chronic cuts to funding. To encourage people to 'grow up' and accept negative experiences is very damaging to mental health. Midwives are not just there to 'save your life' as you put it, the majority of the time the women's/baby's lives are not in danger, birth is a natural process. Their job is to monitor, assist and be an advocate for a labouring woman. Irrespective of their personal beliefs!

sunglassesonthetable · 05/09/2022 15:54

notagainpleased. That must be something new, I've never known midwives ask the birthing partners to change pads before. I know they may ask a birthing partner to help support a leg or something, or if you want to be at the business end when baby is born.But I still think its common sense not to get in the mw's way until you are asked

But if you did instinctively try to help by moving the pad. ( and it's hardly a medical intervention) It's not on to have your hand slapped and be told off. That's out of order.

Given the situation, a friendly "it's ok. leave it to me thank you" would do. So really I think we all know it wasn't because OP "got in the way".

NotAgainPleased · 05/09/2022 15:55

RedHelenB · 05/09/2022 15:44

@notagainpleased. That must be something new, I've never known midwives ask the birthing partners to change pads before. I know they may ask a birthing partner to help support a leg or something, or if you want to be at the business end when baby is born.But I still think its common sense not to get in the mw's way until you are asked

@RedHelenB Yes agreed, I stayed out of the way and just held wife’s hand and said encouraging things during all the busy bits later on. When they asked if I wanted to cut the cord even I was like “no thanks, you can do that”, quietly thinking, yes you can cut into the pulsing blood rope doctor, I’ll stay in my lane and just gaze at our new baby thanks. But the pad changing thing was still almost a full day and night away from the actual birth, so nothing that medical or complicated was happening, and I was asked to help and was happy to. It probably just meant the midwife could finish filling in her forms uninterrupted, or check the monitors while I did it.

Even if I hadn’t been asked or was getting in the way, she could have just said. “Oh I need to change the pads myself.” Not slapped and snapped.

OP posts:
Smineusername · 05/09/2022 15:56

Put it in your birth plan that you had bad experiences with this at first child's birth and request that staff are sensitive to your wife's status

Wouldloveanother · 05/09/2022 16:02

I would get in touch with the labour ward and ask that your labour midwives are ‘particularly LGBT sensitive’ as you didn’t feel your wife’s midwives were last time. I think they’ll know who you mean. And ask your wife to reiterate when you arrive in labour.

JoieDeLivres · 05/09/2022 16:09

Race/culture a red herring here, I think. Bringing homophobia into work -especially work where you are inherently in a position of massive power and privilege - unacceptable, regardless of where it comes from. Expect RCOG and the hospital itself will have codes of conduct setting that out. I’d be tempted to put in a retrospective complaint, OP, explaining why you’re doing it now in terms of fears around second birth and that you’re doing it in the interests of improving the culture within the maternity unit for all new mums and their partners.

Failing that, absolute zero tolerance approach when the time comes and rehearse your wife advocating on your behalf, requesting an immediate change of midwife etc on the spot if you experience anything like that again. Congrats and best of luck to both of you! 💐

JoieDeLivres · 05/09/2022 16:15

JoieDeLivres · 05/09/2022 16:09

Race/culture a red herring here, I think. Bringing homophobia into work -especially work where you are inherently in a position of massive power and privilege - unacceptable, regardless of where it comes from. Expect RCOG and the hospital itself will have codes of conduct setting that out. I’d be tempted to put in a retrospective complaint, OP, explaining why you’re doing it now in terms of fears around second birth and that you’re doing it in the interests of improving the culture within the maternity unit for all new mums and their partners.

Failing that, absolute zero tolerance approach when the time comes and rehearse your wife advocating on your behalf, requesting an immediate change of midwife etc on the spot if you experience anything like that again. Congrats and best of luck to both of you! 💐

*NMC, not RCOG 🤦🏼‍♀️

voldr · 05/09/2022 18:46

RedHelenB · 05/09/2022 14:03

If a midwife is there, I don't really see why you were changing pads ( unless possibly it's a homebirth) it's not really the partners remix of whatever sex.
However , it us unacceptable for Amy midwife nit to treat you the same as they would if it was a heterosexual relationship.

Babies do often look like their Dads though, and no amount of wishing will.change the fact that 50% of a child's DNA will be that of the man, he is the father even though he's a donor.

I'm sure the OP hasn't realised the child will have it's biological father's DNA, thank you so much for explaining that.

Sophfreddie · 06/09/2022 14:38

Try not to worry about it...
My hospital referred to my significant other as the birth partner in every circumstance.. including in nicu after the Labour, when only parents (or the mother/birth partner) were the only visitors allowed..
Could you go to a different hospital?

hyperbyke · 06/09/2022 15:22

Sophfreddie · 06/09/2022 14:38

Try not to worry about it...
My hospital referred to my significant other as the birth partner in every circumstance.. including in nicu after the Labour, when only parents (or the mother/birth partner) were the only visitors allowed..
Could you go to a different hospital?

OP has explained why a different hospital isn't an option.

Was your SO repeatedly asked who they were and given dark looks if you showed affection?