What’s the point in being frugal anymore?

[DesolationRow]

I have a fixed low income and am good at cutting my cloth accordingly, I have no debt and free/cheap hobbies and social life.

My average fuel consumption these past few years has been 6500kWh gas and 2000 electricity = around £750 a year. I pay quarterly, always promptly.

On very cold days I put the heating on for an hour early evening. I have reasonable insulation, heavy curtains, I ‘warm the person, not the room’ ie base layer, wool jumpers and socks, fingerless gloves and a hat, hot water bottles and electric blankets. I have an air-fryer and microwave and have two baths a week. My luxury is a small coffee machine and putting the heating on when I have visitors (because my home is definitely too cold for most people to bear!)

So I’m happy and comfortable enough BUT I’ve used an online calculator and my new annual fuel cost will be £2,400 - way, way more than I can afford!

AIBU to think why the fuck should I pay £2,400 to live like this? As I’ve no way of avoiding debt now I might as well heat my home properly and bathe and cook hot meals every day. To me, £3,400 (or £4,400) is as unaffordable as £2,400. My credit rating doesn’t matter and I’m on the ‘priority register’ so think I could avoid being put on a pre-payment meter.

I think the OP has a very valid point. If I was poor and renting in the UK, I'd think the same. Might as well be warm, enjoy good food, rack up the debt. Then declare bankruptcy.
Its a dangerous state of affairs when people start to think like this. I hope the government, at some point, realizes this. If not...well I dread to think what the country will look in a few years time.

I'm seeing a lot of this within my friendship group. Suddenly after a few months cutting back people are thinking 'fuck it' and going out, buying stuff they don't need, basically making hay whilst the sun is still shining.

I get it tbh. After the few years we have all had, the woeful hypocrisy of the people 'leading us', and the fact that the media are telling us we're all fucked anyway no matter what we do, it no wonder people are just trying to have a good time now whilst they still can.

How many companies will start to lay off the staff though because they can't afford to keep them

Oh well what are we all worried about then...

Oh wait, I was planning on doing that already.. and i STILL can't afford the bill.

I don't think anyone is talking about setting the heating at 27 in every room then running around the house starkers with all the doors and windows open!

You survived.

Lots of people didn't survive though did they. The excess death rate that winter went up significantly. But thats ok, because you survived so it will be a doddle for everyone else.

Except it won't be, because some of us can't easily wear seventy three layers and run about to get warm, some of us are dependent on heating and electricity for more than a bit of comfort and practicality.

It's really easy to say 'well I survived' if you were fit and healthy at the time, which you almost certainly were if you're still here now.

We have a rising population of disabled and elderly.

In 1976 there was around 14% over 65 - now that figure is around 19%.

I can't find figures for disabled people in the 70s (doesn't surprise me, the government at the time were failing comprehensively to do anything to actually help disabled people) but now that figure is over 19%.

Even allowing generously for 10% crossover thats nearly 30% of the population who are vulnerable.

But I guess its survival of the fittest eh, jolly hockeysticks for those who can survive and oh well, it'll save the budget some money if we have a big die off of cripples and pensioners.

Oh loads.

If everyone does hang on to their pennies to pay their enormous fuel bills for normal or reduced usage, and at the same time, businesses are spending more, to do less business..

We're going to see an epic economic crash, a Great Depression - we're going to lose small business, medium business, anything in arts, entertainment, hospitality, high streets will die, they already are but this will be the final nail in the coffin.

Big biz will survive, they'll cut some bonuses, shut some smaller plants, but they will survive, big internet based businesses will make it too, though they'll be selling goods only the very wealthy can afford.

With high streets abandoned, stores shuttered and buildings standing empty we'll see vandalism and destruction, of property the owners can't afford to maintain or even secure properly...

Alcohol and drug use will rise, any time you decrease the quality of environment and standard of living you'll see an increase in addiction and an increase in crime to fund it.

But hey ho, wrap up warm and have another hot chocolate, people survived before so it'll allllll be ok.

A few restaurants have closed already where we live citing energy bills. The shopping centre will become a ghost town . We are really worried as we have a Victorian, three storey house , already had a bill £5,500 which we can’t afford! people are going to get in massive debt as they will rely on credit cards. The whole thing stinks!! I predict riots and wonder what would happen if loads cancel their direct debits, power in the masses !!

I haven't read the full thread only your posts op and I agree with every word you've said.
But just to make sure you are making fully informed choices I thought I'd mention one thing.
I work in a related field to this and with relation to making customers go onto pre-payment meters... The energy companies are not supposed to do this lightly and if you have an old style meter they tend to behave themselves, but... If you have a smart meter we have been finding some energy companies sometimes have been doing this more readily (at first sign of trouble rather than after a long period of time and support) because they don't have to come to your house, it can be done remotely.
This makes our blood boil as a smart meter is a really useful budgeting tool.
Being on the priority register and having a health condition would not shield you from this situation. 🤬

Well, all the water you don't use, is still water saved. It's not like your neighbours would think 'ah Kane next door used 20 litres to water her garden, so that's 20 more we can use today.

you only rerouted your bath water for a while this summer, my friend would think your wasteful, he does this permanently & has done for years. He is very frugal, especially with water! He uses a camping shower (within his shower enclosure) he uses the wood burning aga to heat the water.

the Aga isn't his choice as he lives with his Dad.

anyway, my point is, every bit YOU Dave is still saved, no matter what your neighbours do.

but sadly it's a drop in the ocean to the amount wasted by water companies with terrible maintenance & slow responses to leaks.

I don't think she is deflecting. She makes a valid point which supports the OPs point.
Do not risk your health and life by reducing utility use to avoid debt, which for many will be inevitable anyway.
Followed by:
Debt is not the end of the world. There is help available.
Its perhaps naive for people to think grants are there for the asking, but they nevertheless do exist, as one amongst many other strategies to manage debt. All of which are preferable (to many of us) than living in the way the OP would need to.
People risking their health through fear of debt need to properly understand what the consequences of debt are. When you read that people fear the extreme measures of bankruptcy, reposession, prison and so on for unpaid utilities, it's helpful to balance that with information on the actual way such debts are managed, including the potential sources of help, so people can make an jnformed decision.

I am the same as you op, I survive on a low income, my heating only goes on for a hour in the evening on cold days, sometimes a hour in the morning whilst dc gets ready for school. I use a air fryer most days instead of the oven. I have no debt, I have always lived with the money I have and have managed to save for things like Christmas and car repairs. With the price of gas and electric going up I’m not going to be able to do this, this will cause me huge anxiety. The price rises of fuel will also make the price of everything else rise, food and clothes are already priced higher than they were 6 months ago.

Its perhaps naive for people to think grants are there for the asking

Yes it is, I agree. And they are relatively small. So you might get a £250 or £400 grant toward a £6,000 bill - I mean, what's the point? What actually is the point?

And you have to jump through a lot of hoops first, and a number of the 'fuel poverty' charities currently fundraising are only signposting anyway to places like Citizens Advice rather than giving actual money away. (I spent half a day going down that rabbit hole, following links from the Guardian.)

The revamped Warm Home Discount Scheme can't even be contacted until 14th November. (Suppliers are supposed to contact eligible customers directly but, yeah, what could possibly go wrong.)

Just fed up, tired and angry thinking about the needs of disabled people who need electricity for medicines, equipment and treatments. What will they be offered - power cuts, tea & sympathy and another £150 PIP 'bonus'?

We don't have as much gas (and hence electricity) as previous years.

Increasing supply in such a short term (before this winter) is not possible.

So the only decision remaining is how to reduce demand and ration gas.

Option 1 is the current method of full free market price rationing.
Option 2 - rolling blackouts.
Option 3 - hard rationing based on usage.
Option 4 - stepped bands of energy pricing (i.e. higher price of energy above X kWh).
Option 5 - borrow more from the future to give to the poor.
Option 6 - borrow more from the future to cap the price.

Pick your favourite. Other options may exist.

I like Option 4 best.

I wouldn’t read anything into this. My local Age UK wouldn’t accept a bag of donations as they’ve got too much stock and don’t have the time to sort through anything else.

I like option 4 too, with something in place for elderly or disabled who need more energy. At the moment with standing charges taken into account, those with lower usage are actually paying more per kwh!

I do not know what a warm home is and all the latest energy saving tips have been my way of life. Basically I will be paying a lot more to still be cold.
It is all very well saying ' heat the person and not the room' but when the air around you is freezing it is a miserable existence.

Crimsonlake

I agree. Your brain doesn't work properly when you are really cold. You get sinus problems.

It is such a stark contrast to previous years. People with adult children working might get some help with bills from them. Friends and family members will think of living together.

I think the work place and public spaces will cut down on heating also.

I hear you.
The up front grants ( supposedly to make costs more affordable and to avoid debt) you reference won't touch the sides.
I think the poster was referring more to the help available once debt is a reality. I work in the sector and historically we have had success in gaining grants to write off debt, reducing repayment to (genuinely) affordable amounts, or persuading utility companies to write off part of the debt.
Unfortunately there will of course be more and more people in need of this help and resources are finite. My hope is that there will be more help coming from central government and the companies themselves so more funds are available for this, but its a hope not a guarantee.
I think for me the key message still has to be that people must look after their health now, and worry about debt later.
I'm horrified at the thought of vulnerable people leading miserable uncomfortable existances, risking hypothermia, through fear of owing money, when there's is no benefit to you in dying debt free. Or to use OPs example, £2k in debt rather than £4k.

we're all fucked anyway no matter what we do, it no wonder people are just trying to have a good time now whilst they still can
This is my thinking. I feel like we’re the orchestra playing music on the deck of the Titanic as it sinks. We know what’s coming and there’s nothing we can do, we might as well make our last moments happy ones.

The past couple of weeks I’ve spent a fortune eating out before all the restaurants close, and taking my kids to all the museums and art galleries and cinemas which will soon be locking their doors because they can’t afford to open. We’ve been swimming several times before the leisure centre has to close because they can’t afford to heat the pool. I’ve already bought Xmas presents for every child because I won’t be able to afford them in a couple of months when the prices go up or I lose my job. Fiddling while Rome burns! These are the end days of capitalism.

I'm thinking the same. I'm on prepay and I find it easier knowing if I haven't got it then I can't use it, I'd sooner that than a mountain of debt. A duvet and heated throw will keep me warm, I'm on my own so it's easy its the people with young kids I feel for.

Bless you.
Once you face the worst that can happen, it allows you to get angry rather than scared.
I completely get where you're coming from.

@ITalktotheTrees I also lived through the ‘70’s. The one room we sat in had a coal fire and was toasty warm. It also didn’t cost thousands of £’s to keep warm and well fed. You are missing my point.

@CleopatrasBeautifulNose Thank you. I’ve avoided a smart meter because of this so I have an old fashioned meter, outside my house, that I read monthly (to keep track of my usage) and submit readings quarterly online. Each time I submit a message flashes up saying something like ‘is this accurate, it’s an unexpected figure’ - I’m guessing that’s because my consumption is pretty low.

It is possible to look forward to colder months and be worried about the cost of living.

I don't like hot summer months.

We have nice family anniversaries in the colder months.

I'm still worried about price increases. Not just for me but for family, friends and wider. I work in a role that will see the impact felt by others and we're trying to work out what we can do to support.

Option 5 - borrow more from the future to give to the poor.
Option 6 - borrow more from the future to cap the price.

Except a nation’s economy doesn’t work like a household economy. The country has been in debt since the 1600s. The Bank of England can issue money to the govt and in effect govt never has to pay it back. I believe though further inflation can be a risk. I personally am for a windfall tax on energy producers (not retailers).

Well exactly. We had one toasty family room and coal was affordable. It didn't suddenly shoot up by 600% within a few months. There's no comparison with today.

Also many people now don't have chimneys so can't run fires in their homes.