What’s the point in being frugal anymore?

[DesolationRow]

I have a fixed low income and am good at cutting my cloth accordingly, I have no debt and free/cheap hobbies and social life.

My average fuel consumption these past few years has been 6500kWh gas and 2000 electricity = around £750 a year. I pay quarterly, always promptly.

On very cold days I put the heating on for an hour early evening. I have reasonable insulation, heavy curtains, I ‘warm the person, not the room’ ie base layer, wool jumpers and socks, fingerless gloves and a hat, hot water bottles and electric blankets. I have an air-fryer and microwave and have two baths a week. My luxury is a small coffee machine and putting the heating on when I have visitors (because my home is definitely too cold for most people to bear!)

So I’m happy and comfortable enough BUT I’ve used an online calculator and my new annual fuel cost will be £2,400 - way, way more than I can afford!

AIBU to think why the fuck should I pay £2,400 to live like this? As I’ve no way of avoiding debt now I might as well heat my home properly and bathe and cook hot meals every day. To me, £3,400 (or £4,400) is as unaffordable as £2,400. My credit rating doesn’t matter and I’m on the ‘priority register’ so think I could avoid being put on a pre-payment meter.

@DesolationRow
I understand that it's not everyone and I was specifically citing Christmas (although I forgot to make that clear) as many people on social media and the media itself, have bemoaned the fact that it certainly won't be a merry one. To say that we'll have freezing homes is somewhat extreme as is saying we'll not be able to afford to eat.

As long as everyone talks to their energy provider and accepts one of the solutions they offer, their energy won't be cut off. They will agree a payment plan and spread the winter bills over the spring and summer months when heating is used less.

Those with medical needs or low income will get as much help as possible, which has already been explained publicly. We are in a situation where we have to accept that cuts in our use of energy will have to be made, at least in the short term.
Food prices have risen due to energy prices rising and we can't alter that but we won't go hungry, we'll simply have to make different choices, buy basic brands and be more inventive with our ingredients.

I do know what it's like, as I clearly remember when the National Grid implemented electricity cuts, 4 hours on and 4 off on a rota. We had to manage with extra clothing, wood or coal fires or paraffin heaters, flasks of hot water and candles. Food shortages happened around that time too but we got through it, although it was difficult for our parents.

This is something other countries are going through too and is not a simple fix. We have strikes looming, deliveries of food are dependent on recruiting more drivers and some countries have had poor harvests so there is less of certain foods on shelves.

I have had no heating on since early March and I'm moving my main shop from Waitrose and M&S to Tesco, although they're not much cheaper. Aldi and Lidl are two bus rides away and Morrisons don't deliver to my area.

I am grateful for the help government are able to offer (I'm retired) and I do budget. I have no TV or car. I use an old tablet and a SIM contract for my android phone and don't have parking so I sold my car and use my bus pass, which is a huge money saver.

Believe me, no political party will be able to magically make things better for everyone and after the rash of Covid spending we still owe trillions, which has to be recouped.

The energy companies making the huge profits are the drilling side of the market which ARE NOT regulated by Ofgem

Eon, Utility Warehouse or British Gas etc. the retail providers, they have to pay market rates in advance to drilling companies and if market rates rise after they declare their tariffs, they have to take the hit as well as factor in taking failed companies on board.

If you or anyone else decide not to agree a payment plan, then energy prices will rise further for those who do pay, because those defaults must be covered. They are businesses, there to make a profit and being a shareholder is not a dirty word.
Shareholders are investors whose money helps to modernise, maintain and grow a company and in return, when profits are made, they get interest. I think that's entirely fair.
These are the facts that I'm afraid most of us are having to deal with, each in our own way.

As long as everyone talks to their energy provider and accepts one of the solutions they offer, their energy won't be cut off. They will agree a payment plan and spread the winter bills over the spring and summer months when heating is used less.
This is what the direct debit already is and people can not afford these.

What your energy costs are going forward, depends entirely on what you use.
EDF emailed that they were increasing my DD from £21 to £30 when I changed to a fixed tariff but the reality is that my bills are less than £16pm each. Yes, gas use will rise in winter but still be well under under £25.
Projected bills are not the whole story.

Scaremongering is gripping the nation.
Yes, prices will rise but we don't live in the Arctic. We'll get through it. We're British.

@MinervaTerrathorn
Yes, I know but those were April price rises and people have not stopped paying. The rises ONLY apply to those NOT ON FIXED TARIFFS. If you failed to change from an SVT when the signs were that further eye-watering rises were on the horizon, then who is to blame? Some people put off changing as the SV tariff was so good but that was a mistake.
I myself let a fixed tariff of 11.4p pkWh slip through my fingers in June thinking that there'd be plenty of choices before October and I was wrong. Fixes were being pulled and I was lucky to get a good offer of a 2 year fix at 13.14p from my SV provider in July, before that too disappeared.
Now the cap is revisited every 3 months we have to be more vigilant.

@LoisLane66 😂 it might surprise you to learn there are a million+ people in the UK live closer to the arctic circle than London!

can’t see prison as a threat personally. Heat, bed, grub, free OU degree… card games with the girls.

What your energy costs are going forward, depends entirely on what you use.
Not true, 40% of my summer bills would be standing charges under the SVR.

Really?

What is your standing charge?
What is your rate of gas and electricity per KWH?

My standing charge is currently 52p a day for gas and electricity - so about £180 a year - £14 a month

Do you not use much electricity or gas then?

85% of people are in the price cap rate.

Even at those low rates you have got, I would be surprised at that annual DD

How much energy do you use in KWH?

Many people wouldn't have been able to afford the fixes and so hoped the SVR wouldn't get that bad, that the government would intervene. The April SV rate wasn't 'so good' either, I'm fixed st 15% above that with low usage and it's a struggle with the cost of absolutely everything going up.

Projected bills are not the whole story.
Scaremongering is gripping the nation.
Yes, prices will rise but we don't live in the Arctic. We'll get through it. We're British

How does being British protect when gas price per KWH has risen from 4p per KWH last January to the October price cap of 15p per KWH and maybe more in January 23?

You do understand exactly what this means, don't you?

And you do understand that for businesses, there is NO price cap?

I do know what it's like, as I clearly remember when the National Grid implemented electricity cuts, 4 hours on and 4 off on a rota. We had to manage with extra clothing, wood or coal fires or paraffin heaters, flasks of hot water and candles. Food shortages happened around that time too but we got through it, although it was difficult for our parents.

I think what a lot of the "we've done this before brigade" seem to be forgetting is that we don't have things like coal fires, paraffin heaters or calor gas heaters anymore.

The only source of heating in my flat is the central heating & my tenancy agreement doesn't allow for paraffin, calor gas or halogen heaters so I can have oil filled electric radiators or electric fan heaters in place of the central heating both of which cost a fortune to run.

It's just me & DD who are both relatively fit & healthy, we have oodies, plenty of blankets & hot water bottles so we'll survive with using the heating at the bare minimum but others won't.

As someone pointed out upthread we're one of the ten richest countries in the world but we have people going without the basics of shelter, food & warmth - we may want to start looking at the reasons why.

1980 pa as estimated by EDF who I have only been with for 10 months gas.
Electricity...not sure as I pay my landlord. The bill I receive shows the current and previous months usage. My most recent (Aug-Sept) gas bill was 15.80 for 31 days. Elec was 14.65 but it's on a small business rate at 17.1p pkWh and 12.5p standing charge. I live in 5 room flat over a shop which is let by landlord to a retail business.
Elec meter is in shop with sub meter which shows my consumption, monthly readings taken and I get bill showing my usage shop usage and all costs. Shop get copy same bill and pay their share.
Only pay half the 25p daily charge as does the shop. I have no connection to the shop, different door, different road. Landlord used to live here decades ago and run the shop as a shoe shop, hence meter being business rated. Gas and elec both fixed until 1st Aug '24 and April '24 respectively.
Gas is 13.19/27.22 and the tariff came with a code for first 50k customers of £150 credit 46 days after new tariff started which is, for me, Sept 10th. That will mean no gas bills for at least 7 months.

Your gas was £15.80 for 31 days - I don't think your annual consumption is going to be what EDF predict if that's your summer usage on that tariff.

Jesus @LoisLane66 can you really not see that your circumstances are vastly different to most people’s? Surely you can see that your energy bills are a fraction of most people’s due to your (mostly unique probably) circumstances? Don’t you understand that many, many people have already made the cuts you suggest? It’s all very well and good selling your car and using the bus when you’re a pensioner and get a free bus pass but for those of us who have to pay, it costs more to got the bus than use the car a lot of the time.

All you’re doing is making people who are already in a desperate situation feel even worse.

As someone pointed out upthread we're one of the ten richest countries in the world but we have people going without the basics of shelter, food & warmth - we may want to start looking at the reasons why.

We have. And come to the conclusion that you lot aren't working hard enough. If you don't believe me, ask Liz Truss, our sainted new PM. She's long been on record saying how lazy us Brits are.

I think what a lot of the "we've done this before brigade" seem to be forgetting is that we don't have things like coal fires, paraffin heaters or calor gas heaters anymore.

I was just about to say the same thing.

I lived through it before. It wasn’t as bad then for several reasons. The main one is that people’s expectations were lower. Gas was, as far as I remember, unaffected and our reliance on electricity was far, far lower. Our world didn’t have to stop when there was a power cut. Education and, in many cases, work could carry on. Telephones, if you had one, kept working.

@LadyCatStark
My expenditure is, pro rata, more than for a family of 2 adults and two children with two in one's and child benefit/possibly other benefits.
If 3 of them sit in a room to watch TV the cost of heating that room shared per person, is less than my cost of heating a room.
If you switch on a light and several people use the room it costs less per person than if I do the same thing. I'm talking about the cost divided by the in one and number of people.
I've lived with electricity cuts as mentioned upthread so I do know the impact it has and I do know that it can be managed. It's never ideal but nothing in life is guaranteed...well, not much anyway.

I think you are underplaying the effect on life in the 70s quite drastically actually. People weren't any happier about being cold , the didn't routinely use candles -electricity was pretty integral to ours lives then too. People were on average more stoic perhaps but many of the adults had lived through WW2 so not surprising. But let's not pretend they happy took it in their stride -look at how they voted afterwards.

The pre-payment tariffs are just beyond belief, try to avoid them at all costs. My daughter lives on benefits and I've paid her fuel bills for some years by direct debit for just this reason, the idea is that she pays me back by installments. Previously she had a prepayment meter and the cost was much, much higher than any "normal" tariff.
I suspect that the cost of living over the current year means that I won't be getting any repayments and that she'll be struggling to feed herself.
On our development we have central boilers which provide everybody with heating and hot water. Obviously we are as economical as possible but of course not everybody will bother. Heaven knows what our service charges will be next year, we're already in for an extra bill of over £500 for the current six months, on top of our already heavy management bills.

OP, totally totally agree with you!

But I did indeed choose a fixed tariff for both our own property and for my daughter's flat. I obviously chose too well as the tariffs were too low and both companies went bust, so both of us are now on standard variable tariffs. The same is true for many people. I normally choose a good fixed tariff every year and prided myself of saving money, but I can no longer do that.

@LoisLane66 If you are a retired person of pension age, then you are significantly better off than a family on means tested benefits.
You will also be first in line for grants such as cold weather payments whether you on a low income or not, as you would be part of this government's target demographic who must be kept happy to ensure re election.
You would also be part of a group that enjoys a certain level of sympathy 'worked all your life' and so forth, so you will find there is public appetite for help that benefits your age group. Far less so if you are a younger person heading a low income family with 'children they shouldn't have had if they can't afford'.
As such, you may indeed have reason to feel complacent.
If you pay by DD for your utilities, even if you were down to your last £10, you wouldnt face an immediate choice between eating and heating. You would buy food.
However if you are on a pre payment meter that has run out and you're also out of food, it's fairly obvious the choice is necessary, and I can assure you that countless people are making this choice already.

@120go, not really, this political economist explains why you can’t equate a household economy to a nation’s economy. He argues as I have seen other economists argue that a way to cope with inflation if the Bank of England releases more money into the economy is through tax measures.

Loving the “ we are british “ comments , is it something to be proud in today’s world but what exactly does that mean ? That we have one of the worst nhs services in Europe , that we had more covid deaths than any European countries , that we have slower growth of the G7 ?
We just got liz truss for PM for goodness sake how can anyone just say enough proud to be british and suffer

If the economy is banjaxed then you have to spend don't you? This "let the market sort it out" old cobblers is how we got here. "The market" wants to charge us £7000 for energy next year!

The government says there's no magic money tree but public spending has been going up for yonks.