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AIBU?

What’s the point in being frugal anymore?

276 replies

DesolationRow · 03/09/2022 15:23

I have a fixed low income and am good at cutting my cloth accordingly, I have no debt and free/cheap hobbies and social life.

My average fuel consumption these past few years has been 6500kWh gas and 2000 electricity = around £750 a year. I pay quarterly, always promptly.

On very cold days I put the heating on for an hour early evening. I have reasonable insulation, heavy curtains, I ‘warm the person, not the room’ ie base layer, wool jumpers and socks, fingerless gloves and a hat, hot water bottles and electric blankets. I have an air-fryer and microwave and have two baths a week. My luxury is a small coffee machine and putting the heating on when I have visitors (because my home is definitely too cold for most people to bear!)

So I’m happy and comfortable enough BUT I’ve used an online calculator and my new annual fuel cost will be £2,400 - way, way more than I can afford!

AIBU to think why the fuck should I pay £2,400 to live like this? As I’ve no way of avoiding debt now I might as well heat my home properly and bathe and cook hot meals every day. To me, £3,400 (or £4,400) is as unaffordable as £2,400. My credit rating doesn’t matter and I’m on the ‘priority register’ so think I could avoid being put on a pre-payment meter.

OP posts:
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Am I being unreasonable?

1046 votes. Final results.

POLL
You are being unreasonable
14%
You are NOT being unreasonable
86%
Babyroobs · 03/09/2022 22:52

People will just end up building up huge debts then enter into debt management and end up paying it off at £1 a week or something .

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DesolationRow · 03/09/2022 22:52

@Friars23 I’ve been with British Gas on their standard variable rate for a long time, I had a prepayment meter in my old home but luckily moved last year and now pay quarterly. My approximately £750 annual usage is based on the price cap pre March 2022 (£1277). The October price cap is £3,549, which will roughly triple my annual energy cost. If it goes up again in January my bills will even higher.

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SpindleInTheWind · 03/09/2022 22:53

goldfinchonthelawn · 03/09/2022 22:42

I completely agree with your first post OP. There is no logic to living so frugally if you will end up in extortionate debt anyway, so you may as well live very comfortably and maybe declare yourself bankrupt, once the debt has become impossible to contemplate.

If we are to be treated like fools we may as well live like fools, without a care in the world.

It's really opening people's eyes, isn't it?

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mumda · 03/09/2022 22:54

When we've been saving for a rainy day we didn't think we'd need an ark.

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WiddlinDiddlin · 03/09/2022 23:01

Oh yes the wonderful grants.. they kick in when you're up to your eyeballs in debt, IF they have anything left in the pot by the time that happens.

I can't see any other way that sort of system can work... and don't get me wrong those with nothing should be helped out first.. but.. it isn't the system we should be relying on in the first place.

Then there is the shenanigans with the warm homes discount.

People who have qualified for that for years will now not qualify, as they've altered the criteria, so for many the 150 they're given by the government is taken away by the 140 they've lost by no longer qualifying for the warm homes discount scheme.

Will we see benefits rise? All those letters that read 'this is the amount of money the government says you need to live on' which goes up by around 20p once a year - are we going to see those calculations altered due to the cost of living increase?

I very much bet we aren't (except possibly for OAP's, because we don't like to call that 'benefits').

Even if that does happen, those of us reliant on our PIP payments to cover the extra heating and electricity we need are unlikely to see any rise in payments.

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5128gap · 03/09/2022 23:01

LovelyLovelyWarmCoffee · 03/09/2022 22:48

Won’t they repossess people’s homes if we just stopped paying? And cars, TVs, etc.
I remember the subprimes crises with people living in their car after loosing their house…

No. The only way your house will be repossessed is if you don't pay your mortgage*. Your other goods can only be taken if they get a court order to send bailiffs, which is highly unlikely, and if you refuse to let bailifs in they can't force entry.
*In the highly unlikely event a utility company filed for your bankruptcy you could lose your house, but I've never known that to happen to a domestic customer with a year of arrears.
Pay your mortgage and rent.
Eat as well as you can
Use the utilities you need to stay warm and healthy.
If you're servicing non priority debt like credit cards and loans not secured on your home, get help from a charity like step change or Citizens Advice to negotiate reduced payments to free up cash.
Remember you will not be alone with fuel debt. They will not use draconian measures against the huge numbers impacted.

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DesolationRow · 03/09/2022 23:02

@jennakong I’m not panicking. You know what really would be insanity? Reducing my living standards still further and worrying myself sick about how to find the money to pay these outrageous fuel bills.

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TheHateIsNotGood · 03/09/2022 23:06

The main thing I take from this thread is that so many of us do live within in our means and a few of us have been able to squirrel away a little rainy day/chimney repair/etc fund just in case. And watch that go to Business instead?

Never mind all those many people who haven't been able to put anything aside at all - the cupboards are already bare.

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a1poshpaws · 03/09/2022 23:07

If anyone here's on Twitter, you could do worse than follow "Don't Pay".

Whether or not you're on Twitter, you can if you like, go to: dontpay.uk/about/

The proposal is that we sign up and pledge not to pay our energy bills on 1st October. The pledge will only be asked to be honoured if the number of pledges reaches 1 million. (Essentially, we'd be striking, just like the transport workers and refuse collectors, for instance.)

Obviously, if just a few people did this on their own, the energy companies would make life hard for them. But we're talking a minimum of 1 MILLION here whom they'd have to jump through all the legal hoops for - it would be unworkable for them; it's a safety in numbers game. Don't Pay explain it like this:

A non-payment campaign is when people collectively commit to not paying a bill or charge. One example would be the resistance to the Poll Tax: more than 17 million people refused to pay and it became impossible for the government to force people to pay. Even then many people were scared to act and not pay the tax. But as confidence grew and local Poll Tax Groups were formed to support each other, it became socially acceptable to not pay. Tens of thousands of liability orders were issued forcing people to pay - but people refused and eventually the Poll Tax was scrapped.

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Friars23 · 03/09/2022 23:08

DesolationRow · 03/09/2022 22:52

@Friars23 I’ve been with British Gas on their standard variable rate for a long time, I had a prepayment meter in my old home but luckily moved last year and now pay quarterly. My approximately £750 annual usage is based on the price cap pre March 2022 (£1277). The October price cap is £3,549, which will roughly triple my annual energy cost. If it goes up again in January my bills will even higher.

Thanks for your reply. From googling the energy price cap increased by 54% in April 2022, and it'll rise again as we know by 80% in October. My maths maybe wrong but taking £750 as your annual cost up until March 31, 2022. This would mean your annual use from October 1, 2022 would be approx £1989 if you continue to use the same amount of energy. So not quite as high as £2400 but still obviously extremely high. Also of course they are predicting a further % increase in January 2023. The govt have to step in but I am not confident they will do enough. To me another windfall tax on energy producers seems to be the fairest thing to do.

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EveningOverRooftops · 03/09/2022 23:09

mostlysunnywithshowers · 03/09/2022 18:56

From the bustle of the local shopping mall this week with families queuing up to buy Clarks shoes for 2,3,4+ children, the food courts full, I would say a lot of people have either not heard the 'news' or they've reached the same 'fuck it' conclusion. As in, if we're gonna be poor anyway then we're dam well gonna spend it now while we can. I get it.

I get it too about most 'responsible citizen' living - whats the point in living frugally and conscienciously if your fuckwit neighbours are going to carry on as of there is no tomorrow and no consequence of their actions. Because when a real consequence does arise.... well there is just a nice big bailout/ban for all, regardless of who emptied the trough or cutback.

Take the example of this summer's droughts and hosepipe bans. We rerouted our bath drainage pipes to fill a temporary rainbucket to water the garden with, our general usage for a 4 person house is less than the average 2 person house and our water bills are generally very small. We have had a small paddling pool maybe a few times all summer with only ankle deep water in. We don't do this because we can't afford more, we do it because water is a communal resource and we want to feel a responsible part of the community. Compare with idiot neighbours who have been filling a 10ft diameter pool over and over since about May, hosing down patios, stood with the hosepipe gushing water down the road to water planters and driveways. So when the water company declares a drought, do they restrict only those people who have overused? No, they do it for all. So yes, why bother when we live next to selfish c@#£s like that?

Part of me would love to see progressive pricing on water the same way we’re taxed.

first part is basic rate to cover cooking and bathing needs based on per person amount, anything over is charged at a different rate and the more you use the higher the rate. Want ti fill a hot tub? Go for it but it’ll cost you £1 cubic litre instead of 50p or whatever the going rate is.

carry on with disability exemptions that do exist.

but I can also see how this would be exploited to abuse the poor.

I too am cautious. I always use a hosepipe to fill watering cans if I have to use mains water. Water butts are lined up and we used bath water to water everything that wasn’t a good crop. Just pissed off with doing what’s right ethically etc and everyone else doesn’t give a fuck.

and don’t get me started in American friend who, despite complaining about fuel costs, wont even entertain switching a jeep for a mini but goes on rants about factories producing so much CO2 and he doesn’t have to change. Gah. Frustrates me.

take only enough to get you by. Fair share and all that.

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the80sweregreat · 03/09/2022 23:10

I think it's time we all told big business to do one , but we can't.
Trouble is we are letting them all mug us off for years and there's not much we can do about it.
They have all the power when you think about it
This could be the end of capitalism, but it ain't going to be pretty without any heat or electricity and prices just going to unmanageable numbers. You can't get blood out of a stone so what's the answers ?
Times are a changing and it's going to be hard

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Seriou · 03/09/2022 23:13

Why are people so against prepayment meters ? I know it’s a bit more expensive but there’s no nasty surprise bills through the door, or not knowing what to expect.
ive had them for years, including putting them into a new build house.
Or is the savings actually worth it, I don’t know ??

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itsnotmeitisactuallyyou · 03/09/2022 23:15

I am going to buy two extra water bottles next week,we have already cut back a lot,dont know how much more we can cut,already on the edge.We should all burn fuel bills too,what they going to do ? put us all in prison?

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TakemedowntoPotatoCity · 03/09/2022 23:19

whoever talked about the ridiculousness of the 2020's is spot on. Growing up I never had months off school (covid), saw food banks (has heard of them but they were only for dire emergencies) or imagined a world where energy costs would basically quadruple overnight. It used to be go to school, work hard, get qualifications, get a job, progress, get more money, have a decent career. Now it's more like - what's the fucking point in any of it because they just want to take it all away so why bother.

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the80sweregreat · 03/09/2022 23:24

TakemedowntoPotatoCity · 03/09/2022 23:19

whoever talked about the ridiculousness of the 2020's is spot on. Growing up I never had months off school (covid), saw food banks (has heard of them but they were only for dire emergencies) or imagined a world where energy costs would basically quadruple overnight. It used to be go to school, work hard, get qualifications, get a job, progress, get more money, have a decent career. Now it's more like - what's the fucking point in any of it because they just want to take it all away so why bother.

Precisely this

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WiddlinDiddlin · 03/09/2022 23:24

Seriou · 03/09/2022 23:13

Why are people so against prepayment meters ? I know it’s a bit more expensive but there’s no nasty surprise bills through the door, or not knowing what to expect.
ive had them for years, including putting them into a new build house.
Or is the savings actually worth it, I don’t know ??

It is significantly more expensive, and you have far less say over how debts are paid back.

Also during the day you can run out of electricity - for someone like me who needs a fridge to chill medication, or who needs naps in the day with a CPAP machine, thats actually life threatening.

It hits those with the least money, the hardest of all.

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DesolationRow · 03/09/2022 23:24

@Seriou I happily had a prepayment meter for years before I moved house earlier this year. On average I topped up by £15pw, it was a handy way to budget and was affordable. But now I would be needing to put £25 in each week (a stretch) and in the coming October it would be about £45pw. I don’t have that money and so would regularly be living without gas and electricity if I still had a prepayment meter. So many people are going to be in this situation, it must be terrifying, especially if you’ve got kids at home still.

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the80sweregreat · 03/09/2022 23:28

Even the really mega rich will baulk at 7k a year energy costs. You don't become rich by giving your money away. They can absorb the costs , but they will still be pissed off about it.
I think we should all tell the companies to just take what we can afford and hope it's enough to let us have some heat or hot water.
Would be fairer to ration it all maybe ?
At least we would be all in the same boat
What businesses will do I've no idea though
:(

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DesolationRow · 03/09/2022 23:32

@IrishladyNE enjoy your defiant steak!
@WiddlinDiddlin I get everything you say.
@TheHateIsNotGood 🤣
@5128gap Thank you, I really appreciate your calm advice
‘Pay your mortgage and rent.
Eat as well as you can.
Use the utilities you need to stay warm and healthy…
Remember you will not be alone with fuel debt’

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SheBuilds · 03/09/2022 23:33

Can I ask why you pay quarterly after a bill? The energy cap varies depending on the payment type, and direct debit gets cheaper rates.

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Whyaretheynotdoinganything · 03/09/2022 23:41

I think we need to ration energy so it’s fair.

We produce 43% energy from our own renewable resources. We need to ramp up our storage and batteries which people are working around the clock to do right now.

How would it work? Each street is scheduled to have power cuts say 3 days a week at peak hours. You know it’s coming so you have a sandwich or salad tea or have soup or stew ready in a flask. You heat your home beforehand, wrap up warm. You have gas lamps or camping lamps that are charged before electricity goes off - discourage candles as not safe. Read and go to bed early.

Energy using businesses go down to a 4 day week and hours on these days are increased to maximise production and services. It’s all planned out and led by sector bodies. Homeschooling for secondary schools 2x days per week (unpopular i know!).

Everyone encouraged to minimise energy use outside these times. Lots of public announcements and possibly legislation too eg. hot tubs banned.

If we could get our usage down as a country and we change the rules on the price so we pay what it actually costs to purchase our U.K. generated energy (and nationalise the companies) we will be paying much less per unit. Our bills will be manageable and we can work towards energy security in next 5 years.

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EmmaH2022 · 03/09/2022 23:45

I don't think there's a need for power cuts

try turning off all the lights in empty commercial buildings first, and cutting off their power when they are closed.

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StickywithSuncream · 03/09/2022 23:45

the80sweregreat · 03/09/2022 23:24

Precisely this

Agree with this.

I'm 80% confident the government will do something sufficiently impactful to mitigate this for most. If nothing else (I'm not expecting it out of the goodness of Liz Truss's heart, obvs), just because this is feeling more and more like a poll tax moment. With so many feeling they have no choice but not to pay anyway, purely because they can't, we're going to see a breakdown of the social contract and possibly law and order unless this crisis is averted somehow. It'll mean the government kicking the can down the road in terms of cost, but they're good at that already.

It's that or somebody managing to slip Putin a Polonium sandwich, but nobody's managed that so far, so.....

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StickywithSuncream · 03/09/2022 23:48

Whyaretheynotdoinganything · 03/09/2022 23:41

I think we need to ration energy so it’s fair.

We produce 43% energy from our own renewable resources. We need to ramp up our storage and batteries which people are working around the clock to do right now.

How would it work? Each street is scheduled to have power cuts say 3 days a week at peak hours. You know it’s coming so you have a sandwich or salad tea or have soup or stew ready in a flask. You heat your home beforehand, wrap up warm. You have gas lamps or camping lamps that are charged before electricity goes off - discourage candles as not safe. Read and go to bed early.

Energy using businesses go down to a 4 day week and hours on these days are increased to maximise production and services. It’s all planned out and led by sector bodies. Homeschooling for secondary schools 2x days per week (unpopular i know!).

Everyone encouraged to minimise energy use outside these times. Lots of public announcements and possibly legislation too eg. hot tubs banned.

If we could get our usage down as a country and we change the rules on the price so we pay what it actually costs to purchase our U.K. generated energy (and nationalise the companies) we will be paying much less per unit. Our bills will be manageable and we can work towards energy security in next 5 years.

But scheduled cuts will mean nobody can use a freezer to batch cook to save on fuel, or store yellow sticker items?

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