Would you raise that you thought a friends child is on the spectrum?

[Justdancers]

We have a close friendship with a couple who have a little girl aged 4 (ill call her Jane). We have no children

Every since Jane was fairly little there have been behaviours that to me suggest that shes likely autistic. I have a fair ammount of experience with autistic adults due to working in a supported living but very little with children or how child development works really. I mostly knew that in an adult those behaviours eg stimming would likely be indicative of autism but wasnt sure when some stuff like being solitary play stops being the norm for that age, if that makes sense? Janes mum worked doing sensory interventions for autistic children for a while so i would assume has a good knowledge

Obviously a large part of Janes infancy was in covid so we saw less them often, and also knew that would change her social development. Each time we have seen her those things have remained and become a bit more noticeable as she hasnt been on track with other peers of her age.

We never mentioned this. Frankly we arent kid experts, Our friends are fantastic parents who seemed like they were doing an awesome job . Jane is happy, a cracking kid and we like spending time with her. It never seemed any of our buisness and thete was never a reason to

Recently Janes preschool has flagged that they feel she is autistic. Its clear this is a bombshell for them and even if they were thinking it in the back of their minds, having someone else flag it has been shocking.

We have had been emotionally supportive of them since as they try and figure out systems

Theyve told us theyve been feeling hurt that friends and family (they dont seem to include us in this) have also noticed things but not shared it with them. They feel let down by this, and like people were not being open with them.

We arent sure if our approach was the best now, we were just going with the flow, and taking their lead.

I wondered if other people would outright tell a friend if they noticed things like handflapping, sensory issues, development delays etc or if they would stay quiet?

No I wouldn’t unless someone asked my opinion; I’ve seen people do this and it go very wrong and if someone is very much in denial then it’s not going to go well

I think I would say something only if the parent raised concerns first. If they were talking to me about the child's development and saying she was a bit behind etc., I might say that I had worked with children with autism and maybe it's something to consider, I've noticed that she does X which is quite common in the autistic children I've seen etc.

Even then, I'd only say it if I had a professional background/ personal experience to back me up so could speak with some authority on the subject.

I certainly wouldn't raise it out of the blue without the parents mentioning any concerns to begin with. They would be the ones to initiate it.

I don't think you did anything wrong by not voicing your concerns - I think the parents are just worried/ upset but hopefully they will get the help they need now.

I strongly suspect my friend's child is autistic for a multitude of reasons but have never said anything direct because their parents aren't ready to handle it including the logistics of investigating and then managing with places like school.

The topic comes up because one of my DCs is autistic. There's an opening there if they want to take it up. From my experience with DS there's lots of subtlties I notice like selective eye contact (I only realised with DS when the consultant pointed it out; he only directly looks at "safe people"). He'll share interests with the group of children but either do things on his own (very much like toddler side by side play) or in a very fixed way. His speech is a little "off" and he'll tend to monologue, or struggle to slot with conversation age appropriately. He's very sensory with play and food. The really tricky bit is when the children have had a spat and I can't openly explain to mine that it was an autustic reaction to a trigger rather than being awkward. With one of mine having a rigid viewpoint of the world this happens a lot!

DS1 had a phase of awful meltdowns, his record being 4 hours and that was the push that I needed to join the dots up. I recognised a few scattered traits over the years but nothing seemed strong/ clear enough to push to investigate. When he was diagnosed, I was still stunned, partly through shock that I'd been believed and someone else took it seriously. Even with diagnosis, his primary school never saw through the masking and truely saw the autism. For children that "function" adequately on the surface, different people will see it differently and even without stereotypes and fear of what autism means for life, it's very difficult to broach the subject sensitively if a parent isn't seeing it or accepting that they're seeing it.

If the friends ever open up with suspicions, I'll be supportive but it needs to come from them first. You can't make people see it before they're ready.

I don't think this is one that you could win tbh.

@Justdancers I have an autistic son. I would suggest that if you are asked by your friends "do you think DD is autistic?" to answer "possibly, but you would need to seek a diagnosis". But don't initiate that conversation.

I have a friend whose 6 year old doesn’t make eye contact, doesn’t interact much with other kids, doesn’t talk when spoken to. Think the child said about 10 words to me in 2 years. I’ve not said anything because it’s not my place and also not everyone wants a diagnosis. I can understand that though.

I don't see how you can say something. If the parents say something to you first, you can say: 'Oh, ok. Perhaps' , and read the relevant chapter or article which they show you.

The notion of 'otherness' will be upsetting, if that is how it will come across. Perhaps a conversation could go well, but there is a risk that it might not. The autistic child will have traits and features and a personality, like any neuro-typical child, and it will be hard for a friend to put across that they have noticed differences, without making it seem that they think the autistic child is very different. Autistic children are often very affectionate and interested in people, in spite of social difficulties, and pointing out 'abnormal' social behaviour can come across as suggesting that the child isn't friendly or loving.
My son was diagnosed with ASD by the health professionals aged 4, although it was suggested by a private practioner at an earlier she. The nursery talked sensitively about it and encouraged our efforts to investigate further. They had pertinent examples of difficulties to refer to - that my son was having - and they were trained educationalists. When I mentioned the possibility first, friends listened, and talked about the very positive traits, such as being smiley and interested in people.

A really close friend could talk it through with parents, but not easy to suggest it, when the parents don't seem to be considering the possibility.

Yes I wouldn't say anything either. I was upset when a teacher mentioned it to me for DS1, and DH didn't want to know. Friends and family didn't seem surprised when I told them! Many families don't want a diagnosis as they believe it will hold their kid back in adult life.

Maybe not surprising your friend didn't notice any signs. Didn't Tony Atwood (expert on Aspergers) not realise his own son was autistic?

I would say something if an appropriate moment presented itself. But obviously I can't diagnose and several conditions can present similarly/ with overlapping traits. I would point out traits, could say that my children on the spectrum did/struggled with XYZ. No point in avoiding the topic if you can help/educate etc. I now have lots of knowledge on SEN and felt most lost before I started educating myself - I would help someone on that journey if I could.

Like someone else said I would never dismiss a concern- that's what happens too often. If a parent publicly questions if their child is neurodivergent in some way then chances are they are.

Also it helps if someone is talking positively about being autistic, I think it makes people more likely to embrace the idea/possibility. Talking about it in hushed tones with fear /dread (or avoiding talking about it) doesn't help anyone.

I had a similar situation with my SIL and her son and I think you really have to wait until the parents are ready to hear it. It’s so tricky. In my nephew’s case we all had our suspicions from when he was very very small (things like no eye contact, almost never smiling, an impressive but alarming obsession with numbers and counting things…) but she could only see her clever little boy and claimed that the reason he never played with other children at nursery was because he was ‘too advanced’ for them. People would tentatively ask if she was worried about his development and she’d just say no, he’s so clever and good at all these different thing, why would she be worried? She didn’t want to hear it and would get quite defensive.

But one day it was like a lightswitch and she decided to ask his nursery about it, at which point they apparently had a whole heap of info ready to give her. It was like they’d been waiting for her to bring it up. Then she was finally ready to hear from friends and family, but that would never have gone down well if people had pushed it before then.

God no- it would be seen as picking up a flaw or a negative in someone else’s child.
Not my place

When my eldest was on the pathway to diagnosis a relative mentioned that she and her husband had thought that of my son. I was a little surprised they hadn't mentioned it, but wasn't annoyed, it's not something that can be easily brought up. When her son was struggling and I suggested he may have autism, she was severely pissed off with me. So I've never told her I suspect she and her husband are too!

It sounds like she is embarrassed that she didn't notice it herself so is looking for someone else to blame. Tony Atwood didn't notice it in his son so it's quite common.

I did to someone I thought I was close to. Her son was part of my sons friendship group and she kept accusing my son and another boy of bullying her son because they wouldn't play what he wanted how he wanted and he couldn't play with them all unless it was in a certain way due to his limited social ability. There were other behaviours which all pointed towards being on the spectrum, it wasn't just about how he played with the other boys.

We speak now if we bump into each other and are polite but we're no longer close. Her husband won't even look at me. Child is doing ok, still has issues socially but he isn't part of my sons friendship group anymore as I wasn't having my son accused or bullying her son when it wasn't the case.

I'd never do it again which is sad as I have a friend who thought her child had behavioural issues but someone pointed out that they may have autism and she embraced the suggestion fully and got every kind of help she could for him, she understands her child better and has adapted their lives to accommodate him and his needs and it's made a huge difference to him especially in terms of his education and abilities socially.

You're sort of damned if you do and damned if you don't. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Short answer? No.
The nursery has flagged it, seed planted. Let the rest do its thing.
Be a friend. Be loving and be accepting. That’s all you need to be.
Let her parents be the ones to say ‘Our DD is autistic’ if and when that day comes. Don’t take those words from them. Give that power to them because it’s very healing for parents be able to say that. A diagnosis can be a time of relief, bereavement, all sorts. Affirmation/acceptance is a gift the parents give to themselves on their own watch. It cannot come from others.

If it was a acquaintance or vague friend:I wouldn't have said anything

A close friend? Yeah I would have said it. For sure.

No i wouldn't my son is 12 and has severe autism and learning disabilities, he was diagnosed at three and a half ,I was in denial at first ,but of course I knew, it wouldn't have helped for well meaning friends to point things out, I have long since accepted the situation, and for the most part I couldn't imagine things any other way ,but it was something I had to come tonterms with.

I wouldn’t want to be the first to mention it to someone but if a parent had said it had been flagged then I would probably mention I had noticed it too. If they were angry or in denial about it I would suggest going through assessment anyway to ‘rule it out’, by which time the parent will probably come round to the idea.

When DS was about 5/6 he had various professionals involved due to speech and learning difficulties. He was clearly autistic but no one wanted to say it - they were happy to talk about dyspraxia and verbal dyspraxia but also mentioned there might be ‘something else’ going on. They were relived when in a meeting I asked if they meant autism, clearly they had poor reactions in the past and no one wanted to be the first to say it!

I can only speak from my own experience and say that I don’t know how I would of taken it from a friend or family member. I was concerned about DS stimming and speech delay before he was two and even when he got the diagnosis a couple years later it was still very hard to hear and was upsetting.
My mother is a primary school teacher and there have been a couple kids over the years that she suspected Autism with and the parents absolutely refused to hear it or allow child be referred for assessment. So clearly some parents are in complete denial about the possibility that their child has a development delay.
I don’t think your BU OP.

No. I think it's quite generally accepted that the suggestion of a neurodivergent label of any kind has to come from the person themselves, the parents (if it's a child) or possibly a teacher, unless you're specifically asked for your opinion.

If she brings it up with you, just tell her that you know you’re not a kid expert, and you just assumed that all kids develop at different stages and have different personalities to each other. Also that you didn’t really watch her grow up so far due to COVID.

My brother and sister in law (who have no children or professional knowledge in this area) keep saying to my parents (not us) that they think one of our children is autistic. They keep picking up on behaviours like being really knowledgeable about things a typical 5 year old would be into, just completely normal stuff (he absolutely is not autistic!). My parents who told me about it are pissed off and my husband is really not impressed. My husband is a teacher so is very aware of the signs etc, I think it just irritates him that they are saying it behind our backs and don't want to let it drop, when we arent there my sil will say out loud "if that isnt autism I dont know what is.." when watching him play etc. Personally I would never suggest someone else's child has an issue, chances are it will not be received well.

Ooops! Sent too early. Just reiterate what you said above - that this little girl has fantastic parents who are doing everything right

If they were a very good friend then absolutely I would tell them.

This did in fact happen to me a few years ago and it was difficult having the conversation with my friend but at least it meant she could start seeking assessment and support which would of course
always best for the child.

I really don’t see it like that. To me picking up a flaw/negative would be saying something like ‘gosh George is really naughty isn’t he, he doesn’t listen to you at all’ about a badly behaved child. This is more (to me) like saying ‘oh George is limping a bit there, it looks like he’s hurt his leg or something.’

I still would be conflicted about whether or not to bring it up, but I wouldn’t see it as pointing out a negative.