To not back up Mil when she tells my dc something?

[IAmAGargoyle]

DMil is with us on a visit. She's come from quite far so is staying for a few weeks. She spends most of her time with ds7. She's also very helpful otherwise and has been helping us with chores, etc. So far we've got along quite well. However, she just asked me to back her up when she tells ds something and said it's confusing for ds that I don't. However, the times I don't back her up is when I don't agree with what she has said (e.g. she's always telling Ds to be careful so that he won't get hurt, or to not touch stuff or to wash his hands after every tiny thing, etc). It doesn't matter what it is but what matters is that I don't agree. E.g I don't want Ds to learn to be overly cautious (he's anyway a very cautious child and very hesitant to take physical risks). So I tried to explain that I consciously don't back her up because I don't agree with what she's saying. She said it's confusing for ds (and insinuated that he will use it to manipulate us) if I say something different to her. I said Ds can just check with me (which he does) and then I'll tell him what needs to be done, which is either in line with what mil is saying (if I agree with it) or not.

Also, when it comes to consistency isn't it more important to be consistent in my messaging rather than changing my demands or expectations based on what someone else is saying? So I always say no or yes to the same things rather than letting ds touch a stick (or something that.mil considers dirty) when It's just us but not when mil is around?

At the same time the things we disagree on are nothing really that requires us to have a big talk about and it come to an agreement so that we are on the same.page and can present a united front. Or do we have to do that? As lovely as mil is she never budges on her opinions. Also, there's just too many things. Surely we can't have a conversation about every little thing and do we need to considering she is not a parent? I'm willing to do that with dh to an extent but not anyone else.

I also don't want to ask her to not say anything to ds ever because 1. I don't want to police someone else's speech (and I don't think what she says is harmful. It just doesn't fit in with what I want to teach my child) and 2. Maybe it's good for ds to hear differing viewpoints. I do this with my mum. I will openly challenge her on something that she tells ds (and vice versa) and we discuss it a bit and it's all good. I think it teaches Ds how to handle conflict or differing opinions. I don't do it with mil because I think she'd find it disrespectful.

Anyway, we didn't have a massive row about it but I somehow do feel very guilty. I am pretty sure I am right in not backing her up about things I don't agree with but why do I feel so unreasonable and guilty? Should I be backing her up considering she is spending so much time with Ds? She isn't doing child care for us. She has asked to spend this time with ds but she does help out a lot.

How do other parents handle this? Do you back up any adult or family member to keep what everyone says to dc consistent?

If you’re not sure how she will react, best to do in person where you can add context of a pleasant face, a hand squeeze and a cup of tea. I hope she will consider it, otherwise you just have to counter-mand her on the spot for DS benefit.

So, she says “DS stay away from that puddle, you don’t want to get all muddy” and you’d simply say “Oh not to worry, I was planning on putting a wash on this afternoon anyway, so DS feel free to squish about in the mud”

You simply hold firm. Acknowledge her concern, give reason why it’s a no, and instruct DS. But don’t get into habit of No every time. Always pause and think, is she right? And agree where you do or can agree.

I don't come across well in person with her. I'm not sure why. She used to tell me that the way I talk is too cold but I'm not sure why so it's difficult to change. Also she tends to cut me off if I start talking about anything controversial with her.

I absolutely re-enforce when she says something I even mildly agree with eg washing your hands after coming home from outside or after using the toilet, or when they are actually dirty, etc. When I don't agree I either say nothing or sometimes I say something along the lines of what you suggested. For Ds I guess the latter might make it easier to know what to do rather than if I stay quiet.

Alternatively, Granny stops demanding that Mummy follows Granny's rules on parenting in Mummy's house, and just accepts that she's lucky to be able to provide the care she sees fit without contradiction, given Mummy doesn't agree with her methods.

That's a win win. Your suggestion is Granny rules the roost.

How's your relationship with your own DIL? Asking for a friend.

She sounds very difficult and stubborn to me, I am sure you come across fine it’s she doesn’t want to hear it. I’m sorry you’re in this pickle. I think you’re doing the right thing by speaking up for the sake of your DS. 💐

I totally see where you're coming from, was at the beach last week and a grandma was hovering around a toddler carrying rocks, oh don't carry that one, it's too big you'll drop it on your foot etc. It was loving overkill and over time would degrade his own ability to assess risk and take appropriate care.

Speaking as a grandparent, I think it’s rare for any of us to think that our children and their spouses are bringing up the grandchildren in precisely the way that we think children should be brought up.

But as long as the kids are happy, loved and cared-for, the grandparents should smile, help, buy ill-advised presents and keep their traps shut.

@IAmAGargoyle my mum is exactly like this ‘don’t kneel on that stool IN CASE you fall, don’t climb on the wall IN CASE you fall, don’t do anything IN CASE something goes wrong’ it’s frustrating. But managed to navigate by allowing the kids to do the thing she was OTT about and gently but firmly saying ‘it’s fine, leave them be, they need to learn risk etc etc’.
the worst of it is she genuinely assumes I will have the same viewpoint.
they are teenagers now and we still get it. But they just know that granny is highly risk averse but they don’t have to be. She is literally having kittens about them travelling this summer. Good luck!

Where is your DH in all of this?

Yes, that's my worry, especially for someone who is naturally cautious and fearful anyway, which is why I don't want to go down that route of overprotecting ds myself. I'm quite happy for her to say whatever she wants though but the problem is that she expects me to back her up (ie I think when she says "don't carry that, it's too heavy" she wants me to say "granny is right. Don't carry it", which I don't.) Well, I'm not sure how much of a problem it is. I told her last night that I won't do it and she's ok with me today and doesn't seem resentful or annoyed so maybe the issue is resolved.

My DD noticed by herself how negative MIL was. She commented more than once that every time Granny spoke to her was to tell her not to do something...
My MIL was a micromanager and found it very difficult to let go. Occasionally I would intervene and suggest that the kids can try it by themselves and it doesn't really matter if they get it wrong or don't do it quite right. She would look quite stricken at the prospect but wouldn't argue with me.
I'm not sure you will be able to dissuade your MIL from her views but you don't have to agree or reinforce them. If she asks again for you to support her, I'd simply say you won't be reinforcing behaviours you don't agree with.
Exposure to a bit of dirt and bugs actually help children build better immune systems.

I think my child would just say ‘Grandma is just being silly’ and we would all laugh. Your kids, your rules. You only need a united front with the other parent.

Say the their child

Or say to their child

I think after more posts I see better what you're saying. I do think you're being Confusing by staying quiet. He either needs to do what granny says or not. I agree about not mindlessly following authority but he's too young really to know when he needs to or not. I think you need to nicely contradict her when you don't want him to pay her heed. It's not fair on her otherwise. And it's not fair on him to be the one to decide when he does and doesn't listen to her.

Saying no to them just for the sake of them hearing it is a terrible idea, sorry! They should learn that when they hear “no” it’s being said for a genuine reason. They’ll deal with plenty of disappointment and frustration in their lives quite naturally.

“his hands aren't grubby. He does wash them but I don't insist that he washes them for instance after removing his shoes (when he has just washed them before removing his shoes) or after touching his hair or the floor at home. To me these are unreasonable requests and I don't want to ask him to do something in our home that I find unreasonable”
These are definitely unreasonable requests and you’re right to not go along with teaching him nonsense like touching his hair will make him ill. I honestly think she may have mild OCD or some kind of health anxiety. Ironically, excessive handwashing is a bad idea - too much washing with soap removes the skin’s oils which are part of our natural defences, and can cause skin cracking which also increases the likelihood of infection.

How on earth does/would she cope with him playing in the outdoors, far from a washbasin to use after touching anything? Will she lose her mind if he joins the Scouts and goes camping in the wilderness? Does she think she should wash his hands after touching a dog or a horse? She must have a very limited life herself if she’s so obsessed with handwashing (which is a typical obsession in people with OCD).

What are your ‘rules and wishes’ as parents that are soooo important to invalidate your MIL requests to your DS wash his hands? Don’t you care about hygiene? Again, her saying ‘be careful’ - don’t you want your DS to be careful?

It doesn't matter. Parents choose the level of risk with their children. It starts as the parent's choice, then later is negotiated. Some parents and children are comfortable with a higher amount of risk, some lower.

I'd much rather DD had slightly grubby hands (which she knows to wash before eating) than her friend who says "oooo yucky, dirty" and gets distressed around mud and dirt. Because of unavoidable formative experiences.

I want my child to risk assess well, not 'be careful'.

She's trying to tell you and your child what to do in your own home? No, YANBU. "My house, my rules". And tell your child to ask you if MIL tells him to do/not do something. She can make the rules in her own house, not yours.

‘Be careful’ is a terrible message for kids. It teaches them only to be cautious around any potential risk without teaching them anything about actually assessing and managing risk. With my DS I try instead to say ‘notice that…’ and then let him choose how he responds (unless there are real risks of serious injury etc). ‘Notice that those hedges have lots of thorns…’ - if he then grabs them and it’s painful, then he will learn to risk assess before grabbing at plants in the future. Just telling him to ‘be careful’ or ‘don’t touch the hedge’ teaches him nothing.

And OP is perfectly entitled to raise her child with that in mind.

She is fine with her MIL applying her rules in her house. She doesn’t even actively contradict her MIL. But her MIL is the one complaining because she feels she should be backed up in her DIL’s home. The OP is being eminently reasonable.