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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To not back up Mil when she tells my dc something?

68 replies

IAmAGargoyle · 31/08/2022 22:25

DMil is with us on a visit. She's come from quite far so is staying for a few weeks. She spends most of her time with ds7. She's also very helpful otherwise and has been helping us with chores, etc. So far we've got along quite well. However, she just asked me to back her up when she tells ds something and said it's confusing for ds that I don't. However, the times I don't back her up is when I don't agree with what she has said (e.g. she's always telling Ds to be careful so that he won't get hurt, or to not touch stuff or to wash his hands after every tiny thing, etc). It doesn't matter what it is but what matters is that I don't agree. E.g I don't want Ds to learn to be overly cautious (he's anyway a very cautious child and very hesitant to take physical risks). So I tried to explain that I consciously don't back her up because I don't agree with what she's saying. She said it's confusing for ds (and insinuated that he will use it to manipulate us) if I say something different to her. I said Ds can just check with me (which he does) and then I'll tell him what needs to be done, which is either in line with what mil is saying (if I agree with it) or not.

Also, when it comes to consistency isn't it more important to be consistent in my messaging rather than changing my demands or expectations based on what someone else is saying? So I always say no or yes to the same things rather than letting ds touch a stick (or something that.mil considers dirty) when It's just us but not when mil is around?

At the same time the things we disagree on are nothing really that requires us to have a big talk about and it come to an agreement so that we are on the same.page and can present a united front. Or do we have to do that? As lovely as mil is she never budges on her opinions. Also, there's just too many things. Surely we can't have a conversation about every little thing and do we need to considering she is not a parent? I'm willing to do that with dh to an extent but not anyone else.

I also don't want to ask her to not say anything to ds ever because 1. I don't want to police someone else's speech (and I don't think what she says is harmful. It just doesn't fit in with what I want to teach my child) and 2. Maybe it's good for ds to hear differing viewpoints. I do this with my mum. I will openly challenge her on something that she tells ds (and vice versa) and we discuss it a bit and it's all good. I think it teaches Ds how to handle conflict or differing opinions. I don't do it with mil because I think she'd find it disrespectful.

Anyway, we didn't have a massive row about it but I somehow do feel very guilty. I am pretty sure I am right in not backing her up about things I don't agree with but why do I feel so unreasonable and guilty? Should I be backing her up considering she is spending so much time with Ds? She isn't doing child care for us. She has asked to spend this time with ds but she does help out a lot.

How do other parents handle this? Do you back up any adult or family member to keep what everyone says to dc consistent?

OP posts:
Original poster
IAmAGargoyle · 31/08/2022 23:14

Also she hinted that I don't say no often enough and I think it was again about the being careful thing and the dirt thing. I said that I totally believe in setting boundaries and limits but not for the heck of it. Eg I do have quite strict rules about certain things and I rarely budge on them but I want ds to do many things she says no to and I dont say no unless I have a good reason

Now I'm wondering though if kids need to hear no just more often to learn to deal with disappointment and frustration?

OP posts:
Discovereads · 31/08/2022 23:16

YANBU, but I think the current approach of MIL saying “don’t touch that” or “wash your hands” and your DS then being piggy in the middle looking to you or checking with you is unfair on him. It shouldn’t be this tug of war with him in the middle between MIL and whichever parent is in charge of him.

I think you need to have a chat with MIL and ask her to please direct things like that to YOU (or DH), not to DS. So for example, instead of saying “don’t touch that” to DS, MIL should instead ask you (or DH) “ are you ok with DS touching that?” The same with washing hands, MIL should ask you “do you think DS should wash his hands?”

If anythings hazardous the same, she should instead of saying be careful or don’t run/climb/wave a stick to DS, she should be framing it into a question to ask you or DH for a parental decision. When you’re off a ways, and DS asks her something, she should be saying stuff like a simple “is your mum/dad ok with x?” Or “let’s ask mum/dad if you can do y” is better than what you have now.

Original poster
IAmAGargoyle · 31/08/2022 23:20

MrsTerryPratchett · 31/08/2022 22:52

'Be careful' is a terrible message for kids. It's a recipe for anxiety, especially in an already careful child.

Specific messages like 'hold a knife like this' or 'don't put things in your mouth without checking' are great. Hovering around, nervously telling DC to be careful is not great.

We're a 'shake it off' family though.

Show quote history

In all Fairness she doesn't just randomly say "be careful". She will eg say don't carry that stick because it's sharp and youll get hurt or don't walk so close to the hedge because the leaves are spiky and will hurt you. It's just that we have a very different understanding of what is dangerous. I don't mind if Ds gets a little scratch or bruise and I don't want him to mind either. And I don't want ds to think that getting hurt is something terrible. I always tell him that you can't go through life without ever getting hurt (both mentally and physically) but you do need to be careful about getting seriously injured.

OP posts:
perfectstorm · 31/08/2022 23:20

I agree that consistency is important with children. As a result, your MIL needs to follow your lead in how you and your DP parent so she can provide that.

You have made reasoned choices on what you want, and you are being forbearing in not asking her to follow your lead - she's not being reasonable. She's not just failing to respect your parenting, she's reproaching you for failing to follow hers.

She is not the parent, and she doesn't get to set the boundaries, which is what she's expecting to be able to do.

Original poster
IAmAGargoyle · 31/08/2022 23:25

Discovereads · 31/08/2022 23:16

YANBU, but I think the current approach of MIL saying “don’t touch that” or “wash your hands” and your DS then being piggy in the middle looking to you or checking with you is unfair on him. It shouldn’t be this tug of war with him in the middle between MIL and whichever parent is in charge of him.

I think you need to have a chat with MIL and ask her to please direct things like that to YOU (or DH), not to DS. So for example, instead of saying “don’t touch that” to DS, MIL should instead ask you (or DH) “ are you ok with DS touching that?” The same with washing hands, MIL should ask you “do you think DS should wash his hands?”

If anythings hazardous the same, she should instead of saying be careful or don’t run/climb/wave a stick to DS, she should be framing it into a question to ask you or DH for a parental decision. When you’re off a ways, and DS asks her something, she should be saying stuff like a simple “is your mum/dad ok with x?” Or “let’s ask mum/dad if you can do y” is better than what you have now.

Yes that would be ideal but I think she'd find it difficult because It just comes out of her mouth as she genuinely worries about these things and also I think she genuinely believes that Ds will get ill from touching something dirty or that a bruise is a terrible thing to be avoided.

You make a good point though. I wish I'd said it when we were talking about this earlier. I'm too chicken to raise the topic again to be honest.

OP posts:
FlorettaB · 31/08/2022 23:35

It sounds like you’re being very reasonable with her. I thought this was going to be about your DC not clearing their plate or your MIL having different ideas to you of what ‘good’ behaviour is. Constantly and unnecessarily telling your DC to be careful or clean their hands is your MIL projecting her anxiety. I’m sure it comes from love and concern but it can be stifling. You know what it’s like to be an adult with anxieties around hygiene so you’re doing everything you can not to pass that on to your DC.

I adore my mother but she does the ‘be careful’ thing constantly. She always has. She worries about all the family all the time. It’s become like a tic. She tells my dog to chew carefully if she’s around when they get their kibble. I know she does it out of concern but I went from being a fearless child to an adult who sees potential risk everywhere.

UWhatNow · 31/08/2022 23:35

Poor MIL. Someone who visits, helps out, is generally reasonable, clearly loves your child and doesn’t want them to hurt themselves or have grubby hands. But no. Even that is considered a punishable crime according to MN because she mustn’t have a mind of her own.

I wonder if any of you have sons and consider what you’ll be like around your future DILs and your GC. I hope you’re all able to say exactly the ‘right’ words in the right order according to what your DIL has in her head at any given time…

Discovereads · 31/08/2022 23:37

IAmAGargoyle · 31/08/2022 23:25

Yes that would be ideal but I think she'd find it difficult because It just comes out of her mouth as she genuinely worries about these things and also I think she genuinely believes that Ds will get ill from touching something dirty or that a bruise is a terrible thing to be avoided.

You make a good point though. I wish I'd said it when we were talking about this earlier. I'm too chicken to raise the topic again to be honest.

Show quote history

Raise it again. She can learn to think before she speaks. Of course she will slip up now and then, but if she makes a conscious effort she can do this. It will lessen the tension too. As you are giving her a way to voice concerns without fear of confusing DS or causing tension by opening the door to a disagreement between the two of you. There’s no disagreement if she frames her concerns as a question to you. It also gives you chance to say “yes, good idea, DS go wash your hands” or “Oh, I think the stick should be ok, but DS mind the pointy end though!”

Aquamarine1029 · 31/08/2022 23:39

Your MIL seems to think she's your equal when it comes to your child. She is not. I wouldn't hesitate to remind her of that fact.

Original poster
IAmAGargoyle · 31/08/2022 23:41

FlorettaB · 31/08/2022 23:35

It sounds like you’re being very reasonable with her. I thought this was going to be about your DC not clearing their plate or your MIL having different ideas to you of what ‘good’ behaviour is. Constantly and unnecessarily telling your DC to be careful or clean their hands is your MIL projecting her anxiety. I’m sure it comes from love and concern but it can be stifling. You know what it’s like to be an adult with anxieties around hygiene so you’re doing everything you can not to pass that on to your DC.

I adore my mother but she does the ‘be careful’ thing constantly. She always has. She worries about all the family all the time. It’s become like a tic. She tells my dog to chew carefully if she’s around when they get their kibble. I know she does it out of concern but I went from being a fearless child to an adult who sees potential risk everywhere.

Oh your poor mum. And your last line is my reason why I don't want to tell Ds things like this. I want the kids to learn that the world is not a bad place full of danger and filth everywhere. I want them to relax and just have fun and not be over vigilant. He's too aware and vigilant anyway. Maybe some kids need to he taught better risk assessment but he's too risk averse already.

OP posts:
FlorettaB · 31/08/2022 23:46

I hope you and your MIL can come to an understanding. You both love your DC and you’re both trying to protect them.

Discovereads · 31/08/2022 23:49

Aquamarine1029 · 31/08/2022 23:39

Your MIL seems to think she's your equal when it comes to your child. She is not. I wouldn't hesitate to remind her of that fact.

I don’t think that’s the case at all. There’s no how to be a grandparent and interact with your DIL handbook. We are all just muddling out way through things. It’s much better imho, to tackle such things collaboratively. Instead of getting into a Willy waving contest on how you’re not my equal, I’d simply say MIL you are amazing and I agree what we are doing is confusing DS so I think in future when you want to caution him about anything, just address the concern to me instead of DS and Ill make a decision from there. I can’t promise I’ll agree every time, but I will always listen to you as I know you have DS best interests at heart.

Original poster
IAmAGargoyle · 31/08/2022 23:52

UWhatNow · 31/08/2022 23:35

Poor MIL. Someone who visits, helps out, is generally reasonable, clearly loves your child and doesn’t want them to hurt themselves or have grubby hands. But no. Even that is considered a punishable crime according to MN because she mustn’t have a mind of her own.

I wonder if any of you have sons and consider what you’ll be like around your future DILs and your GC. I hope you’re all able to say exactly the ‘right’ words in the right order according to what your DIL has in her head at any given time…

Yes she's great in many ways and she loves the kids dearly. No doubt about that. partly that's why I feel bad about her not feeling supported in this. In fact while I was complaining about her in this thread (aka putting the baby to sleep) she cleaned the kitchen for us. Sigh. :-(

I do think though that the kids come first. I don't want the kids to learn that slightly grubby hands will make them seriously ill or that the world is full of dangers and that getting hurt is something that must be avoided at all times. I cannot back that up.

I'm not sure what you mean by right words in the right order. I don't police what she says and I actually told her that I don't want her to feel that she has to watch what she is saying on general or to Ds in particular. It's just that I won't enforce her demands on ds or pretend to agree with them when I don't.

(Though reading some posts I feel that is the wrong way to go about it and might be confusing for ds. It would probably be best if DMil checks with me or dh first as suggested above. With my mum I'd just have a chat with both Ds and DM about the matter, explaij what the rule in our house is and why whenever this issue arose with DM but it feels disrespectful with dmil).

OP posts:
UWhatNow · 31/08/2022 23:58

“I don't police what she says and I actually told her that I don't want her to feel that she has to watch what she is saying on general or to Ds in particular. It's just that I won't enforce her demands on ds or pretend to agree with them when I don't.”

But you do want to police her. You are suggesting she checks with you or your husband before she can speak. What an outrageous suggestion. How would you feel if you had to check with someone before you could interact with your grandchild. Seriously? Will you do that with teachers? Or any adult that talks to your child? She is not going to harm your child or give him anxiety… children are very good at adapting between adults and different ways.

Some very warped and dark attitudes to MILs on here…

Original poster
IAmAGargoyle · 31/08/2022 23:58

Discovereads · 31/08/2022 23:49

I don’t think that’s the case at all. There’s no how to be a grandparent and interact with your DIL handbook. We are all just muddling out way through things. It’s much better imho, to tackle such things collaboratively. Instead of getting into a Willy waving contest on how you’re not my equal, I’d simply say MIL you are amazing and I agree what we are doing is confusing DS so I think in future when you want to caution him about anything, just address the concern to me instead of DS and Ill make a decision from there. I can’t promise I’ll agree every time, but I will always listen to you as I know you have DS best interests at heart.

Show quote history

That's brilliant!!! I wish I'd said that. Maybe I should text her something like: "I've been thinking about our conversation earlier. Thank you for pointing out how confusing this must be for Ds so I think in future when you want to caution him about anything, just address the concern to me instead of DS and Ill make a decision from there. I can’t promise I’ll agree every time, but I will always listen to you as I know you have DS best interests at heart.".

Yes, I've pretty much stolen your line verbatim...

I have just got the feeling that it won't go down well. She will not want to change the way she talks and will resent me asking for that.

I totally agree by the way about not having a willy waving contest. We are both on the same side here after all and want what's best for the kids.

OP posts:
Original poster
IAmAGargoyle · 01/09/2022 00:04

UWhatNow · 31/08/2022 23:58

“I don't police what she says and I actually told her that I don't want her to feel that she has to watch what she is saying on general or to Ds in particular. It's just that I won't enforce her demands on ds or pretend to agree with them when I don't.”

But you do want to police her. You are suggesting she checks with you or your husband before she can speak. What an outrageous suggestion. How would you feel if you had to check with someone before you could interact with your grandchild. Seriously? Will you do that with teachers? Or any adult that talks to your child? She is not going to harm your child or give him anxiety… children are very good at adapting between adults and different ways.

Some very warped and dark attitudes to MILs on here…

Huh? I haven't asked her to check anything with dh or me. on the contrary. I think you misread me or maybe you are projecting. It was mil who raised this issue with me. Not the other way round.

Though I'm now kind of Changing my mind about that as I said in my last post but I never told mil anything to that effect. I am a bit worried though if I do ask her to address the concern to me rather than ds she will react as you and feel that I'm trying to change how she talks or behaves.

OP posts:
UWhatNow · 01/09/2022 00:05

But she is not ‘confusing’ him. You are!

He knows with grandma he has to wash his hands, but with mum… she’s not bothered. Children can cope with different rules with different people. That’s the beauty of grandparents - sometimes they are super crazy about manners but not about eating biscuits before tea. Sometimes they insist you can’t go out without a coat but will let you stay up longer than your normal bedtime. etc etc. different folks different rules. Kids adapt.

But not DILs it seems - it’s always got to be policed speech and no flexibility….

Original poster
IAmAGargoyle · 01/09/2022 00:08

UWhatNow · 01/09/2022 00:05

But she is not ‘confusing’ him. You are!

He knows with grandma he has to wash his hands, but with mum… she’s not bothered. Children can cope with different rules with different people. That’s the beauty of grandparents - sometimes they are super crazy about manners but not about eating biscuits before tea. Sometimes they insist you can’t go out without a coat but will let you stay up longer than your normal bedtime. etc etc. different folks different rules. Kids adapt.

But not DILs it seems - it’s always got to be policed speech and no flexibility….

Just to clarify this isn't about when Ds is staying with mil or when she's alone with him. It's when we are all together. Are you saying that when we are all together grandmum's rules and wishes should trump those of the parents?

OP posts:
UWhatNow · 01/09/2022 00:08

“Huh? I haven't asked her to check anything with dh or me. on the contrary.”

And yet in the next paragraph you say you want to ask her to address her concerns to you not DS…

UWhatNow · 01/09/2022 00:14

IAmAGargoyle · 01/09/2022 00:08

Just to clarify this isn't about when Ds is staying with mil or when she's alone with him. It's when we are all together. Are you saying that when we are all together grandmum's rules and wishes should trump those of the parents?

Show quote history

What are your ‘rules and wishes’ as parents that are soooo important to invalidate your MIL requests to your DS wash his hands? Don’t you care about hygiene? Again, her saying ‘be careful’ - don’t you want your DS to be careful?

The things your MIL is saying are really not big deal - they are the kind of things lots of older people say to children but you are making out that it’s completely undermining you. If it was bedtimes, diet or tv time or allowing him to do reckless things I would agree, but she’s not saying anything really radical. It’s just another poor MIL who can’t do right.

Butterdishtea · 01/09/2022 00:16

Yanu but I'd try to gloss it over.

Original poster
IAmAGargoyle · 01/09/2022 00:18

UWhatNow · 01/09/2022 00:08

“Huh? I haven't asked her to check anything with dh or me. on the contrary.”

And yet in the next paragraph you say you want to ask her to address her concerns to you not DS…

My op and my initial posts (that you seem to be reacting to quite strongly for some reason) are about a conversation I have had in the past (ie earlier today) with mil. I have not asked her to change the way she speaks or anything at all. I just said that I will not enforce rules that I don't believe in. It would be different if he was staying with her. If she doesn't want grubby hands in her house that's fair enough. Though I should say that his hands aren't grubby. He does wash them but I don't insist that he washes them for instance after removing his shoes (when he has just washed them before removing his shoes) or after touching his hair or the floor at home. To me these are unreasonable requests and I don't want to ask him to do something in our home that I find unreasonable.

About addressing concerns to me directly, yes, I am considering this after a poster suggested it but to be honest I don't think that is what you are reacting to as I hadn't mentioned it at all before your first post, I think.

Anyway thanks for your input. I worry that my mil might react similarly to you if I do raise the topic again.

OP posts:
Original poster
IAmAGargoyle · 01/09/2022 00:21

UWhatNow · 01/09/2022 00:14

What are your ‘rules and wishes’ as parents that are soooo important to invalidate your MIL requests to your DS wash his hands? Don’t you care about hygiene? Again, her saying ‘be careful’ - don’t you want your DS to be careful?

The things your MIL is saying are really not big deal - they are the kind of things lots of older people say to children but you are making out that it’s completely undermining you. If it was bedtimes, diet or tv time or allowing him to do reckless things I would agree, but she’s not saying anything really radical. It’s just another poor MIL who can’t do right.

Show quote history

This will be my last reply to you as I think we are just talking past each other. This thread isn't about me feeling undermined by mil..it's about mil feeling undermined by me. I was quite happy with the status quo.

OP posts:
perfectstorm · 01/09/2022 00:29

UWhatNow · 01/09/2022 00:14

What are your ‘rules and wishes’ as parents that are soooo important to invalidate your MIL requests to your DS wash his hands? Don’t you care about hygiene? Again, her saying ‘be careful’ - don’t you want your DS to be careful?

The things your MIL is saying are really not big deal - they are the kind of things lots of older people say to children but you are making out that it’s completely undermining you. If it was bedtimes, diet or tv time or allowing him to do reckless things I would agree, but she’s not saying anything really radical. It’s just another poor MIL who can’t do right.

Show quote history

As nicely as possible: your reading comprehension skills are being clouded by your pre-conceptions here.

Her MIL is saying that she needs to back up the MIL's rules. She's presently just not commenting - not invalidating, just not getting involved, but for the MIL, that's not good enough: OP can't just allow them to do things differently - the OP has to back up the MIL's own, rather different, take on childraising. It's literally there in the post.

The person insisting that there should be one agreed way to parent - hers - here is the MIL.

UWhatNow · 01/09/2022 00:33

Then just smile and nod. Meet her halfway. ‘Granny has asked you to wash your hands, go with her and she’ll help you…’
(no agreement implied)

’granny’s asked you to be careful, she just doesn’t want that prickly bush to hurt you…’
(again no agreement implied)

It just backs her up, keeps her happy, maintains your integrity. A win win.