To think these energy price predictions are just scaremongering now

[Butterflyfluff]

The annual energy price predictions are literally going up by about £500 a day.

There’s absolutely no way most people can sustain £4/5/600 per month energy bills for any length of time.

I'm starting to think it’s all a ploy to just get people to reduce consumption - scare the shit out of people so they use less.

During WW2, the Government took action to ensure that people had access to food and that it was fairly rationed - so people could at least get some.

I don't see the Government doing anything about rationing, encouraging people businesses to use less energy - even though we are in a war time situation.

God knows what this Government would have done if they had been in charge in WW2. They would have ignored the food crisis that was developing despite being warned months in advance that people were going to starve

I'm hoping it forces our hand to become energy self sufficient in renewables. Short term pain for long term gain.

And for most those who can afford to pay it, it’s at the expense of discretionary spending which will trash the leisure/ tourism/ hospitality / beauty industry.

Yep, I think we will see a lot of business closures in these industries by spring. They will be facing less demand and increased costs, as they will have their own high energy prices to pay.

I know that it supplies much of Europe. That is my point! It doesn't make any difference whether the UK as an individual country chooses to support or not support Ukraine. The impact on prices depends on whether other countries support Ukraine and Russia reduces their gas supply!

We shouldn't even be in this position of relying so heavily on foreign power sources.

I recall in Blair's time in power there were calls for building more nuclear power stations. Didn't happen, and we could then see the impending impact of some fossils fuel power stations closing down as they couldn't meet the limits for reducing emissions. I've thought for years we were heading towards potential planned power cuts.

And every PM since then has shrugged their shoulders and done nothing. So I don't have any bias in criticising them all. Even now Boris is saying it's a good idea (ref Sizewell C), but leaving the decision to the new PM, thus wasting even more time.

I've also seen calculations online that it would cost around £6 trillion to convert the whole planet to renewables, but that it would then take only 6 years to pay for itself.

I've also seen recent reports that nuclear fusion has been confirmed in California, but that'll take a good few years to convert to large scale power supply. I bet we see plenty of price rises once a commercial solution is created, as power companies will know their grip will ease once nuclear fusion becomes commonplace. Although, fusion will be great for the planet, not just for the power, but for the by products like helium, which we're in short supply of.

@dianthus101 and @cakeorwine

No I'm not on a fixed rate tariff and never have been I'm with BG on a standard variable rate tariff. Honestly not yet seen an increase in my bill yet. I have smart meters so they get automatic readings and like I said this quarterly bill was almost identical to 2021 for the same period and I've made no changes as I can't make changes to be honest as still need to cook etc.
I pay my bill quarterly as I messed up my monthly payments during covid as I only had payment cards and couldn't get out to pay them so they knocked me off the monthly plan and just send me a quarterly bill. my friend is with BG and still on the monthly payment plan and her monthly payments have more than doubled.

Firstly, your hope is incredibly misplaced. Part of the arguement for privatisation was that the energy generators and suppliers would use some of their profits to reinvest in the energy infrastructure and ensure it was kept efficient, secure, and modern. But of course that didn't happen and profits went to director and shareholders instead while the infrastructure rotted and security eroded.

No government has really sought to address that issue. The green levy encouraged a little bit of investment in renewables but nowhere near the scale needed and this current government seemed to be moving against even that.

Secondly, there is no "short-term" here. If by some miracle the Tories do realise renewables are needed, and can figure out how to pay for it, it will take at least a decade to install the renewable capicity required to meet England's demand.

That's why it is absolutely vital Scotland, who are energy self-sufficient, gain independence asap and shake of the dead weight of Toryland.

But it's the USAGE that's important - and despite taking steps to reduce usage, the price per KWH is increasing a lot

this point from @cakeorwine is key. Simple graph showing for 12,000 kwh gas usage the impact of increasing unit rates (excl vat) and varying levels of reduced usage. Actual charges of course include the standing charge which is a fixed rate so again not included in this.

The rates before the current (apr-sep) where the rates I was paying (as they were immediately to hand)

are renewables actually cheaper? even in the long run?

But the reason I was going to quote anyway is that the Russia war, although impacting now, had absoloutely nothing to do, obviously, with worldwide wholesale price of gas and electricty, been rising since mid 2020.

and another point.
has the worldwide wholesale prices of gas and electricity been rising since covid, because of all the extra people around the world now working from home??

in which case, the extra demand, if that is what has been happening, could be here to stay.

Can you imagine these idiots in charge during WWW2 🤣

Oh my goodness- That’s WICKED.
Such wanton wastefulness, out of sheer spite.
Horrifying.

They're at war with Ukraine and her allies. Did you really think that when sanctions were being imposed on them, that they wouldn't impose a few of their own!

Is it not the being self sufficient factor though rather than purely cost - not being reliant on countries that behave like russia and also so you aren't funding them

@lightand

I was thinking self sufficiency, rather than cost. So we aren't at the mercy of the despotic regimes that produce the gas and oil.

If the price is similar you must have used quite a bit less this summer compared with last summer as they are certainly charging more per kilowatt for both gas and electricity and it's about to go up even more.

You say they are at war as if it got imposed on them. They invaded another country.

Pilipalapal
I’m in Canada. Obviously the UK/European energy crisis is not front and centre in our news, but it is being reported on. So are the Canadian media trying to ‘scaremonger’ Canadians into panicking about the cost of energy in the UK?
Or are news organizations simply reporting about events that are happening in the world (you know, the news)?

There is certainly one misleading statistic in your linked article from Canada. The food bank charity from Gillingham is quoted as "feeding 13,000 people a month" "in a city of 100,000 people" - which implies that 13,000 people are receiving regular free meals. However, the charity told Kent On Line that they provided 12,500 meals in June - if they are really feeding 13,000 people that's barely one meal per person per month.

Saying they are at war does not imply-and nor should you infer-that I think it was imposed on them. Two countries and their allies are at war-there is no moral judgement in that phrase.
I'm on the side of Ukraine and just about like almost everyone else, I'm prepared to support our government in supporting Ukraine. I don't complain about the rising costs (well, I do but I know they're for a good cause) and am prepared to put up with them as they rise further.
I am worried about what will happen if China becomes involved but I don't object to the 2 and a half billion we have given to Ukraine in buying weapons as it is for the common good. We have given more than almost anyone else and will give more because it's the right thing to do.
It's complicated but if we have to pay more for Ukraine to be free and to join the EU and UN, then so be it but it's not cheap in any sense of the word.
But it is simply foolish to expect Russia-a country at war-not to hit hard at anyone she feels is an ally of Ukraine. One of the ways they will do that is through gas-shutting down pipelines and burning excess.
What on earth do you think they would do?

Why are you asking me "what on earth do you think they would do"? I'm not surprised at what they're doing at all and I have never suggested otherwise.

Wow. Lots of entitlement in this thread.

Sod using less energy lets all expect the government to pay our bills.

Why don't you post your gas and electricity usage for the quarter last year and the same quarter this year, along with the relevant costs per KWH?

Because IF you are on a standard price cap, then the cost of each unit has gone up.

And is going up more come October

Why don't you post your gas and electricity usage for the quarter last year and the same quarter this year, along with the relevant costs per KWH?
Because IF you are on a standard price cap, then the cost of each unit has gone up.
And is going up more come October

Renewables are already significantly cheaper than fossil fuels, see this report from last year for example (when fossil fuel prices were still low): www.independent.co.uk/climate-change/electricity-generation-cheaper-renewable-energy-b1891326.html?amp