To think these energy price predictions are just scaremongering now

[Butterflyfluff]

The annual energy price predictions are literally going up by about £500 a day.

There’s absolutely no way most people can sustain £4/5/600 per month energy bills for any length of time.

I'm starting to think it’s all a ploy to just get people to reduce consumption - scare the shit out of people so they use less.

I think you just need common sense and look at your own personal usage
Whilst there is an element of scare mongering I’ve paid the max I can on dd building credit.looked at cutting energy usage
draft proof how looked at cheaper ways of drying laundry etc
all this is because of the info we’ve been given . We should be ok over winter

I must admit there’s people in MN saying they use £500 plus now irrespective of affordability for them they need to cut down for environmental reasons
4 of us 3 bed house no heating on at moment 3 of use shower twice a day washer on once or twice a day dishwasher everyday all the usual tele ,chargers and kettle used
so sad on standard tariff this month £118 according to smart meters

I don't think it's scaremongering, it's just people actually realising how expensive it's about to get. It's not conjecture or speculation; the prices are rising exponentially. That is fact 🤷‍♀️ I genuinely just think a lot of people don't understand the scale of it because they don't understand their energy bills or how it works.

As for £7k, January's price cap figure for typical use (which is low for most families with multiple children) is estimated at being around £5400 by Cornwall Insights and then £6600 in April. They were spot on for the October rise.

A lot of people are in for a very nasty shock this winter and it's not because of Martin Lewis or the media.

But there’s absolutely no way the average family can afford £7k per year on energy alone so something has to give

£7k is about £580 a month.

Very few people need to use anywhere near that. The thing that has to give is peoples energy usage!

You do understand that is the actual USAGE in KWH that is the question.

How much energy do you think a household needs to be using - in KWH?

If you use 10,000 KWH of gas - that's £1500 - at the October price cap
If you use 3000 units of electricity, that's about £1500 at October Price cap

Plus the standard charge.

Is that a lot of energy for a household to use?

If you use 10,000 KWH of gas - that's £1500 - at the October price cap
If you use 3000 units of electricity, that's about £1500 at October Price cap
Plus the standard charge.
Is that a lot of energy for a household to use?

If you use 10,000 KWH of gas - that's £1500 - at the October price cap
If you use 3000 units of electricity, that's about £1500 at October Price cap

Plus the standard charge.

Is that a lot of energy for a household to use?

Seems a lot to me if it is based on only two and a half people in a three bed. We use less than half that with two of us.

Prices last September were £1200 for average home

this October prices £3500 for average home

thays a reality not a project fear or scaremongering

people can’t afford a tripling of their fuel bill

That is less gas than the typical home and slightly more electricity
Clearly you must be a low user and / or have a well insulated home.
There are people out there who use a lot more than that.
So clearly there are people out there who are average users in average homes who are going to be paying about £3500 - £4000 per year on the new price cap.
But it's the USAGE that's important - and despite taking steps to reduce usage, the price per KWH is increasing a lot.

@WhileMyGuitarGentlyWeeps exactly!
I'd say we have a household income of 45k. Yo listen to some experts and Mumsnetters, this should mean we have thousands in savings, not debt and should comfortably be able to absorb this increase in energy bills. In reality we earn enough to get by, to pay the bills and loans (yes we have debt!) maybe have a takeaway every now and the bits and pieces live throws at us on a day to day basis! We earn too much to qualify for any sort of help or benefits. But there is zero chance we can now afford what amounts to another mortgage payment each month. If I decided I wanted to buy a second home or a place abroad i would be refused a mortgage on an affordability level so how can they expect me to be able to afford £450 extra per month on my bills? I don't think we use an excessive amount of energy, our house is small! I can't see where to save money or cut back on our energy usage.
At this point, each time someone on tv says how much the cap is going to be or how much monthly bills will be, I no longer care because there is nothing I can do about it, I can't afford it and that's basically that!

Our highest monthly usage last year was £180. (Before the last cap rise and this one)

If I did my sums right, that same usage will be £486 this winter. Our last statement was £135, (hardly any gas used, of course)-that will now be £243.

Its a massive jump. We can *just about afford it. Probably.

If I didn't work, universal credit award would be £1400 per month, plus £200 child benefit for 2 adults and 3 teens. £939 would go on housing and energy.
I don't see how £641 could possibly cover food, clothing, uniform, spends for teens, any entertainment car insurance eyecare dental care hair care cleaning products toiletries etc long term. Short term, probably can be done. Longer term this would be impossible.

We use 1100kwh electricity and 5100 gas a year. I know we are low users, don't have a choice on a single low income, I think we could bring our gas down slightly this winter compared with last one but not by much while still using heating. The average does seem high to me and I think many people would be able to bring that down if they are not elderly or have a disability.

I agree with this. I also think that this is what it will take for people to seriously engage with climate change. No one cares about it on an abstract level; it will take seriously high energy prices before people change their behaviour. How many of us had parents going bezerk at us for leaving on a light, or daring to turn on the immersion? And now we tumble dry everything and expect to have always on hot water.

I don’t know how you stop people wasting energy without crucifying people who can’t afford it. Cheap rate for the first x kWh depending on number in house, and the ramp up the prices?

It is based on what is happening around the trend of prices, not scaremongering.
Yes, it is terrifying indeed.
We need to reduce our consumption, keep an eye on prices and when the issues are sorted, ensure that we get back to the minimum price, not just an inflated figure with extra profit for them.
Renewable energy investment is needed too, pronto, so we do not get into this conundrum again.

I am sure some people can bring their usage down.

But when prices are increasing, then the actual cost of the reduced amount of energy they use will still be high - purely because the unit price is increasing so much,

I have modelled various reductions in our house using a spreadsheet - the effect of a 25% reduction in gas use and potential price increases in January.

Even with reduced energy use, the actual bills will be high especially compared to previous years because of the cost of each unit

I honestly think there are many people who just have their head in the sand

I don’t know how you stop people wasting energy without crucifying people who can’t afford it. Cheap rate for the first x kWh depending on number in house, and the ramp up the prices?
You'd need a different cut off for the elderly or disabled. My grandmother has average usage for gas with heating at about 23 all day (off at night) in a 3 bed semi. Healthy working age adults or families with school age children aren't going to need that much.

These are interesting points but that’s the difficulty I guess as an abstract idea people might say they support green approaches, but it’s just abstract and not much is done

Prices going up so usage does go down is hard and scary for some

Plus we have a cap businesses don’t, after the pandemic and being saved by huge spending it must be worrying to see loss of livelihood as a possibility again

We’ve has cash payments to lowest earners to take some of price rise off, I suppose there’ll be more.

Prices going up so usage does go down is hard and scary for some
I understand how it would be scary for the elderly or disabled to have to cut their usage.

We are lucky that we can cope with the cold if need be, my teen better than me. We have also lived without heating in a warmer climate, short winter but down to single digits inside. So we have done the duvet and three wool blankets, hot water bottle, two people and a cat in the bed thing.

So what do you think going to happen if you can do nothing about it? You can't just not pay your bills as they will put in a meter and then you have no gas/electricity until you put money into the meter.

Have you looked at your usage and at any advice for how to cut back? Big difference if you have very low usage or average usage in a small house. In the first situation it would be hard to cut back, yes. That's our situation too. If you have average usage then just adjusting the temperature on the thermostat or cutting the hours the heating is on, cutting shower times, and doing less washing could make a big difference.

It really is similar to the way things developed with covid reporting, all kinds of decontextualized scary numbers

COVID was very scary for those who were vulnerable. Similarly, the energy price rises are going to be scary for those on a low income. Even more than with COVID the media needs report on it so people know to reduce their energy usage. It also puts pressure on the government to do something to help people.

In many houses, most energy usage comes from a few devices - so it's possible to make changes without having too much of an effect on lifestyle.

In our house, it's showers, heating and baths. By reducing shower time, lowering heating temperature and having fewer baths, we should have a significant impact on electricity and gas use

I know this because I am a bit obsessed with energy use and understand how it's used in the house

But that’s what the winter fuel allowance is for, no? I’d rather increase that and let pensioners use it as they see fit - it would also allow those on oil heating to benefit.

No but it supplies much of Europe,
That means that more countries are chasing a limited supply. That means the price goes up.

What do you think the PM was referring to when he said, a few days ago, "We must pay in higher bills but Ukraine is paying in blood"
What do you think the Chancellor of the Exchequer was referring to when he said, in response to higher bills, 'Remember we are at war"

They were making a direct link between rising bills and Ukraine. The Ukrainians
gave the PM a medal after her said this!

Obviously, we as a country are happy to be involved in a war against Russia but there is a price for this