To wonder how people will financially survive?

[Cupcakeicecream]

To think that many people are struggling already. Food price rises, gas and electric costs. The general cost of living due to inflation from either brexit since the pandemic and Ukraine war. But come on some people were struggling before any of those factors. Financially people will be pushed to breaking christmas will be off the cards general life will stagnate no meals out leisure activities cinema socialising new clothes treat foods. The threat of blackouts and wondering how we will pay bills to keep warm or keep a house running. Never mind buying food the price of it plus the large gaps on shelves. Winter will be miserable. It's becoming impossible to live in this country.

48 hours became the maximum after robust research showed that working more hours than this caused long-term damage to your health.

Yes I agree, I think the minimum wage on a 48 hour week should be enough to cover all the basics. At the moment, it isn't. People shouldn't have to work to the detriment of their own mental and physical health just to afford basic living standards. The baseline should be being able to live a simple life, that doesn't mean that those who want to have more than that can't work more hours or seek a higher wage or upskill if they want more than the basics.

The minimum wage should be enough to do that on 40 hours a week. Parents should not be forced to hardly see their children.

I agree broadly (and strongly) in principle with two subtle but important clarifications that I think sometimes get overlooked but so make a difference.
-All through history and in many other countries* the smallest building block of society is a 2+ adult unit (humans are social creatures after all). The numbers work when there's 2+ people but are much harder to get to stack up on an individual level (never mind the fact we don't have enough natural resources for everyone to live alone). I view the ability to be able to live alone (and not have to share costs with others) as a luxury, not a basic right, whereas in the U.K. I think people take it for granted
-I count the ability to have children as a luxury

I also think the view that if "everyone changes progression there'll be no-one left to do entry level jobs" is scaremongering and a red herring: there'll always be enough people to do those roles as a) the population of the world is expanding and so there'll always be more younger inexperienced people taking their first steps in the world of employment, b) there'll always be someone willing and grateful for the opportunity to do the work, c) if we truly start to run out of people to do certain roles, supply and demand forces will drive up the price for the role and the gap will be filled

We also need to remember we're all responsible for what a waitress* earns everytime we eat out and either chase a cheaper meal or don't leave a tip...

*my partner is European and they've never never alone in their entire life - they're experience was of multigenerational apartment living (latterly 1 grandparent, 1 parent, 2 adult children in what the U.K. would describe as a 3 bedroom apartment) right up the day we got married. I think people here would turn their noses up at that standard of living in the belief they're "entitled" to more
**which I know well as I've worked as and loved!

I view the ability to be able to live alone (and not have to share costs with others) as a luxury, not a basic right, whereas in the U.K. I think people take it for granted I count the ability to have children as a luxury

This is mumsnet. The general view on mumsnet is that everyone has the right to be a mother, whether they have a partner to support them / can support themselves and their children, or not.

You're misunderstanding me - I never said anyone doesn't have a right to be a mother, clearly everyone does. I said to have kids is a luxury and to be a mother a privilege.

Sorry I hit send to soon...

It follows that I don't believe there an inherent entitlement to have someone else fund my children - it's my responsibility to do that.

I have been thinking a lot lately about multigenerational living.

I wonder if we will see more of it if the economy continues the way it is going?

I think so, and if I'm honest I hope so. I think it has so many more benefits than just reduced costs. It helps the elderly stay connected and part of the lives of their family and helps cut down on loneliness which is a cause close to my heart (I volunteer with a loneliness charity).

The benefits are multidirectional as I think the younger generations gain from have the older around (companionship, logistics support, etc). my partners grandmother (which I previously referred to) just passed away and was buried on Monday and my partner's mother is now struggling as she's gone from being surrounded to now it being just her and her remaining child. For me clear evidence that she's benefitted from the multigenerational lifestyle and something we hope to continue by moving her in with us when she's ready in time. We don't have a huge house so will have less space but it'll be worth it and in many ways we see it as paying back to her in old age for everything she's provided to us (and particularly my partner growing up).

You probably need to wok on your understanding if you can contradict yourself in two sentences. It's entirely possible to be in a full time low paid job and (therefore) be claiming Universal Credit

You are the one who needs to work on your understanding. Not once did I say I am in a low paid job. The original gist of my first post was that I get paid MORE to do very little in an admin job than someone does working the same hours in a manual job.

As I also said, if people need to claim UC when they have a full time job that is something the UK should be very, very ashamed of.

Thankfully multigen living would never have worked in my family as not enough of us like each other. There'd be so many arguments. I'd hate to still be living with my parents, I wouldn't feel like I could do the things I want to do as it's technically their house, so if I want to go out and come home at 4am they might have an issue with it, or comment on other things I do. Like an extended childhood

I totally get where you're coming from. There are certain family members I could trundle along quite nicely with, and others would cause me serious mental issues.

They are not “doing the minimum”, they are working damned hard in a non professional job (harder that you or me) and ‘earning the minimum’!

They are not “doing the minimum”, they are working damned hard in a non professional job (harder that you or me) and ‘earning the minimum’!

Thanks for that comment. This is what I have been trying to say, but some posters are so full of themselves that they can't be bothered even trying to understand.

That poster was saying that in their country they are able to have a decent life while doing the bare minimum at their job and not claiming benefits, not chasing progression. And somehow that made one poster angry. If an employer pays enough that someone can coast along in an "easy" minimjm-effort job, why would that bother you?

Thank you @Teand It's good to know someone understands what I was trying to say. I'm struggling to understand why that particular poster has such a bee in her bonnet.

This thread has been an eye-opener all the same. Here people with children get financial help, but those without children and with full time jobs don't receive top ups and somehow seem to manage. I've never been what you would call well paid, but manage to pay all the bills on one wage with some left over for non-essentials.

think people take it for granted I count the ability to have children as a luxury

society will not survive without this basic right. If people in there 20s30s stop having children, which is happening, then the pyramid of society alters shape dramatically. This has a detrimental effect on those older. No stare pension, or care for the elderly. We would need to change our model drastically and with foresight for this to work. It could work but no U.K. government seems to ever have for sight for future long term projects

I've never been what you would call well paid, but manage to pay all the bills on one wage with some left over for non-essentials.

thats subjective

last year was it a man on £80k a year considered himself average and could accept he was in the top 5% and earned more than a doctor

Here sorry it was 2019

Hi @ivykaty44 please don't mistake me, I'm not saying it should be a right to have kids, I absolutely am. I'm just saying that with rights come responsibilities, in this case to provide for the children.

Fully agree it'd take a change in how our society works to make people accept their responsibilities and that will be difficult given the short term nature of government.

I do however think a fundamental shift is required overall to reset how the U.K. works. As a country we're coasting (on the back of historically generated national wealth which is dwindling) against others globally (in my view, mainly because there is a large sense of entitlement in the U.K. which isn't coupled to a sense of responsibility) and if we don't chose do something, we'll get left behind and then come to a point when we have no choice but to do something - and the choices at that point will be limited!

*shouldn't!!! @ivykaty44 - that was a bad typo! 🤦‍♀️

last year was it a man on £80k a year considered himself average and could accept he was in the top 5% and earned more than a doctor

I can assure you I earn nothing like that!!! Anyway I'm not even in the UK so it's all rather meaningless, but I earn considerably less than the average hourly rate here.

onlythreenow But that man thinks he’s only earning slightly more than you as average opposed to low, and that was my point - it’s subjective. In his mind there is not much difference but in yours there is reality

Ffs!! We are at war! It is not normal times. Russia are absolutely banking on the European people revolting against their govt and that pressure causing them to cave and turn a blind eye to Ukraine. And looks like they were right. Shortages of energy a food gave only just started and people are clamouring for the govt to sort it all out for them. In wars, people have to go without, things are rationed, you do not get what you want when you want it. How do people not understand this? Putin will win and continue take over Baltic countries subjecting the people to his rule or else. Tens of Thousands of people imprisoned and tortured for the slightest dissent. Entire regions cut off with no power, running water or food until he’s starved then into submission. And he’ll be allowed to do so due the spineless, inability of European countries population to face any hardship whatsoever. The sacrifices of WW1&2 will be totally in vain. I genuinely despair.

@Noname99 this makes sense, but the U.K. is facing exponentially higher energy bills than the rest of Europe. How do you explain that? Our local restaurant facing a 600% increase in 8 weeks time and will be forced to close. Meanwhile France is only seeing a 4% increase and Germany is introducing energy rationing, which I think is a good idea. Our government IS bloody useless!!

You sound very frightened, but what you are thinking makes very little sense. We are in no worse postion than the rest of Europe who are not suffering anything like the terrible price rises forcast here.

Well, I say no worse position. We have a woeful government. But that's our fault.

Meanwhile France is only seeing a 4% increase and Germany is introducing energy rationing, which I think is a good idea. Our government IS bloody useless!!

Read the press. France (the people) will have to pay for it somehow in the end. Did you know they have been buying electricity from the the UK? German manufacturers have been closing down. We think we are unique, we are not. Every government in the world is experiencing the same issues. They are responding in different ways.

This is a good summary:
www.euronews.com/next/2022/08/26/energy-bills-are-soaring-in-europe-what-are-countries-doing-to-help-you-pay-them

It looks like UK have so far given more direct cash out, and more towards bills. Other countries are reducing VAT from 20% to 10%, we already only paid 8%. Yet others are reducing prices of, for example, travel. Every country is doing something, including UK.