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Original poster

Have I made a Rod for my own back with DD sleeping

44 replies

loonnie · 25/08/2022 11:52

DD, 2.5 started going through a difficult cry phase at bed time when I would leave her room a few months ago. She had phases like that before, but this time it was worse. I had also just had a baby.

In any case, she would become absolutely hysterical when I left her room. Usually I would leave and after 5-10 minutes she'd stop. But at this stage it became much longer and I was very hormonal and couldn't stand to listen to her. My DH made me leave her up there hysterical for almost an hour one night and I told him that's it. I'm never going to leave her to cry like that again.

I posted here at the time and lots it people said they stayed until their children fell asleep. So I started to do that.

It's becoming very difficult now for me though. No matter what kind of nap schedule she's on, she often doesn't fall asleep until 9:30-10pm. I get absolutely no evening at all anymore. When she wakes up in the night I have to go in immediately or again she screams or gets out of bed and looks for me. This wakes up the baby. I can't have them both in the same room because the baby then wakes her up.

Last night I was going between the two rooms all night. The baby is under 6 months, so I need to sleep in a room with him. It's an absolute nightmare. I have zero time to myself and I'm going crazy. How can I sort this out ??

OP posts:
WingBingo · 25/08/2022 11:56

I went through similar, gradual retreat worked for us.

and keep putting them back repeatedly if that doesn’t work. Do not be tempted to stop!

Marmighty · 25/08/2022 11:56

Drop her naps so she's tired at bedtime and sleeps better at night.

Start a new bedtime routine maybe with audiobooks or your DH doing her bedtimes

During the night get your DH to go in to her, and you deal with the baby

There will be an adjustment period but you need to break the habits that have formed

Original poster
loonnie · 25/08/2022 12:12

Marmighty · 25/08/2022 11:56

Drop her naps so she's tired at bedtime and sleeps better at night.

Start a new bedtime routine maybe with audiobooks or your DH doing her bedtimes

During the night get your DH to go in to her, and you deal with the baby

There will be an adjustment period but you need to break the habits that have formed

Some days I don't let her nap at all. On those days she sometimes gets cranky at 5 pm or naturally just falls asleep at 4 pm.

The last two days she had a supposed 30 minute nap at nursery and did not go sleep until 10 pm or so.

She rarely sleeps by 9-9:30 either. I don't think it's good her development. She's usually up by 7. So I don't think she's getting enough sleep.

When I have her at home, I don't put her down for a nap at all. She usually passes out at 4 or 5 pm though.

Really struggling to work this out !

OP posts:
RiverRiot · 25/08/2022 12:27

That sounds super stressful OP.

There have been studies to show that lack of sleep doesn't impact on child intelligence. Just as adults need different amounts of sleep so do children so don't worry about her development. My niece barely slept as a baby/toddler and even now at 8 she's not a great sleeper but she is a super bright little thing.

I would agree with PP who suggests getting dad involved. Either he put DD to bed, perhaps it becomes their special time together? Or he deals with the baby while you put her down. You can't do it all and you shouldn't be expected to.

Marmighty · 25/08/2022 12:28

It's a really tricky period when they're in the process of dropping their naps. I had to work hard to stop them falling asleep at 4 or 5 during this transition phase otherwise they're absolutely up until 10pm. The duration of nap didn't seem to matter either. I'd be using TV, bath time, being out for a walk or picnic tea in the garden to stop her falling asleep. Then, bed by 6.30 or 7 and see if that helps. I really feel for you, the bed hopping nights with no meaningful sleep for you are a real killer

Original poster
loonnie · 25/08/2022 12:30

RiverRiot · 25/08/2022 12:27

That sounds super stressful OP.

There have been studies to show that lack of sleep doesn't impact on child intelligence. Just as adults need different amounts of sleep so do children so don't worry about her development. My niece barely slept as a baby/toddler and even now at 8 she's not a great sleeper but she is a super bright little thing.

I would agree with PP who suggests getting dad involved. Either he put DD to bed, perhaps it becomes their special time together? Or he deals with the baby while you put her down. You can't do it all and you shouldn't be expected to.

At the moment she won't even let him take her upstairs and becomes hysterical, even when I leave him and her alone in the living room for a bit in the evening to go to the toilet !

Last night he took her upstairs, but I have to be right behind them and she's constantly looking that I'm still there and wanting me to take her. I think it will take a while !!

OP posts:
Original poster
loonnie · 25/08/2022 12:31

Marmighty · 25/08/2022 12:28

It's a really tricky period when they're in the process of dropping their naps. I had to work hard to stop them falling asleep at 4 or 5 during this transition phase otherwise they're absolutely up until 10pm. The duration of nap didn't seem to matter either. I'd be using TV, bath time, being out for a walk or picnic tea in the garden to stop her falling asleep. Then, bed by 6.30 or 7 and see if that helps. I really feel for you, the bed hopping nights with no meaningful sleep for you are a real killer

Do you remember how long the phase lasted while you were dropping naps?

OP posts:
HippyDippieTrees · 25/08/2022 12:41

Could you go out for a drive with the baby or a walk and get your dh to start the bedtime routine whilst you're out.

Mariposista · 25/08/2022 12:43

In the nicest possible way, she's 2,5. She doesn't get to LET you or your husband do anything. You decide who puts her to bed. Be much firmer, let her cry, she will wear herself out in the end. Use earphones if needed. At the moment she is running rings round you and nobody is getting any rest.

Original poster
loonnie · 25/08/2022 12:48

Mariposista · 25/08/2022 12:43

In the nicest possible way, she's 2,5. She doesn't get to LET you or your husband do anything. You decide who puts her to bed. Be much firmer, let her cry, she will wear herself out in the end. Use earphones if needed. At the moment she is running rings round you and nobody is getting any rest.

She generally does this with other stuff too ! She's got me wrapped around her little finger, big time.

I just can't stand the crying. It's absolutely hysterical and heart breaking to hear and goes on and on and on !

OP posts:
HippyDippieTrees · 25/08/2022 12:51

@loonnie you need to sort the wrapped around her finger thing out now rather than later. Not for you but for her own good.

Mariposista · 25/08/2022 12:53

loonnie · 25/08/2022 12:48

She generally does this with other stuff too ! She's got me wrapped around her little finger, big time.

I just can't stand the crying. It's absolutely hysterical and heart breaking to hear and goes on and on and on !

Show quote history

Must be so hard OP but tough it out. She is not unwell, hurt or needing anything urgently (wanting is a totally different matter). You will know if she is sick or hurt. She needs a relaxed bedtime routine, lights out and no more fuss. Once she gets that she can yell all she likes but she won't get her own way, she will get it. You are NOT doing her a disservice by letting her cry. Totally the contrary, you are teaching her boundaries and setting your family up for a good night's rest (which you currently aren't getting) and a happier next day. Please don't pander to her.

Riverlee · 25/08/2022 12:54

I think the answer is, yes, you have made a rod for your own back.

Toddler Training

The book Toddler Training has some very good strategies which you could employ. It’s worth a read.

Shes learnt that by crying, she’ll get attention and what she wants. Start praising and giving her attention to the good stuff, and ignoring the bad. Ie. When you go to the toilet, ignore the crying. You know she’s not really distraught, just trying it on. However, if shes playing nicely, eaten all her food, make a fuss of her then.

Original poster
loonnie · 25/08/2022 12:56

HippyDippieTrees · 25/08/2022 12:51

@loonnie you need to sort the wrapped around her finger thing out now rather than later. Not for you but for her own good.

Absolutely true. I don't give into her tantrums aside from the bed time ones though.

OP posts:
Sillystripytail · 25/08/2022 13:00

I'm in the same situation with my DS except he's nearly 4🥴he is normally asleep by 8 though which is why I've not attempted to do much about it. I can't bear the crying even though I know it's put on and he also throws stuff in anger so I don't want him to break anything. I wish I had the answer😐

Lacey247 · 25/08/2022 13:25

loonnie · 25/08/2022 12:12

Some days I don't let her nap at all. On those days she sometimes gets cranky at 5 pm or naturally just falls asleep at 4 pm.

The last two days she had a supposed 30 minute nap at nursery and did not go sleep until 10 pm or so.

She rarely sleeps by 9-9:30 either. I don't think it's good her development. She's usually up by 7. So I don't think she's getting enough sleep.

When I have her at home, I don't put her down for a nap at all. She usually passes out at 4 or 5 pm though.

Really struggling to work this out !

Show quote history

4pm is far too late to be napping. No wonder she cannot sleep until after 9pm. Can you stop her naps altogether?

Flopisfatteningbingforchristmas · 25/08/2022 13:26

I agree. It’s time to drop her naps. It will take her a couple of weeks to adjust.

SatinHeart · 25/08/2022 13:53

No real advice but plenty of solidarity OP, I have a 2.4 year old who is very similar and I could have written much of what you have! Only in my case its DC2, who makes so much noise at bedtime that 4 year old DC1 gets kept awake and is cranky all the next day. I'm fed up to the back teeth of sitting in DC2's room until gone 9 most nights but if I don't he will be out of bed crying before I've even got to the bedroom door.

I would see if you can establish how much she is really sleeping at nursery. I've found with both DC that nurseries will spout lots of stuff about sleep and development but in reality it's in their interests if your DC naps at nursery, as the staff use that time to catch up on paperwork etc and someone has to amuse them if they don't. I would love DC2 to drop his nap at nursery but nursery is being very difficult about it. We agreed a time restricted nap but I think they are letting him sleep longer and not admitting it.

In fairness there is a risk that once home he falls asleep in his dinner at about 5.30 without a nap...

Original poster
loonnie · 25/08/2022 13:59

SatinHeart · 25/08/2022 13:53

No real advice but plenty of solidarity OP, I have a 2.4 year old who is very similar and I could have written much of what you have! Only in my case its DC2, who makes so much noise at bedtime that 4 year old DC1 gets kept awake and is cranky all the next day. I'm fed up to the back teeth of sitting in DC2's room until gone 9 most nights but if I don't he will be out of bed crying before I've even got to the bedroom door.

I would see if you can establish how much she is really sleeping at nursery. I've found with both DC that nurseries will spout lots of stuff about sleep and development but in reality it's in their interests if your DC naps at nursery, as the staff use that time to catch up on paperwork etc and someone has to amuse them if they don't. I would love DC2 to drop his nap at nursery but nursery is being very difficult about it. We agreed a time restricted nap but I think they are letting him sleep longer and not admitting it.

In fairness there is a risk that once home he falls asleep in his dinner at about 5.30 without a nap...

She's had a nap limit for ages at nursery.. like you, I'm sceptical.. why would she stay up until 10 if she only slept 30 minutes and was up again by 1 pm...

OP posts:
unicormb · 25/08/2022 14:49

If you want good quality sleep there's a certain amount of what many on here would consider to be brutality that's needs to happen.

Both of my babies were put down sleepy and left from six months, which attachment parents would probably consider to be awful, but they and I all had good quality sleep as a result. Whatever. They're not traumatised, I don't think I've ever had to sit with them as they drop off, unless they're ill. There was no 'cry it out' involved. I just put them down when they were calm, warm and fed and left. If they fussed I went back, held them, winded them or sang to them. Then walked away again. No actual crying. And absolutely nothing along the lines of hysterics. Ever. In the morning I go in the second I hear them, usually happily burbling to themselves. In short, it was a routine, a very simple routine, but they felt secure in that.

If I hadn't done this I expect we'd be where many people seem to be, and that sounds far from content and attached to me, it sounds exhausting.

I don't know how you fix your situation without letting her cry tbh. But a little bit really will not kill her, and at her age I suspect she knows how to deploy crying to get what she wants. I guess making her want her bed more than you could be key. A new pillowcase? New teddy? Nightlight? My 4yo can't wait to see her bedtime buddies at night and arranges them around her.

I think we have a pretty strong bond. They're happy, content kids. They sleep well now, at 8 and 4 when many of their peers still have issues.

Original poster
loonnie · 25/08/2022 14:59

unicormb · 25/08/2022 14:49

If you want good quality sleep there's a certain amount of what many on here would consider to be brutality that's needs to happen.

Both of my babies were put down sleepy and left from six months, which attachment parents would probably consider to be awful, but they and I all had good quality sleep as a result. Whatever. They're not traumatised, I don't think I've ever had to sit with them as they drop off, unless they're ill. There was no 'cry it out' involved. I just put them down when they were calm, warm and fed and left. If they fussed I went back, held them, winded them or sang to them. Then walked away again. No actual crying. And absolutely nothing along the lines of hysterics. Ever. In the morning I go in the second I hear them, usually happily burbling to themselves. In short, it was a routine, a very simple routine, but they felt secure in that.

If I hadn't done this I expect we'd be where many people seem to be, and that sounds far from content and attached to me, it sounds exhausting.

I don't know how you fix your situation without letting her cry tbh. But a little bit really will not kill her, and at her age I suspect she knows how to deploy crying to get what she wants. I guess making her want her bed more than you could be key. A new pillowcase? New teddy? Nightlight? My 4yo can't wait to see her bedtime buddies at night and arranges them around her.

I think we have a pretty strong bond. They're happy, content kids. They sleep well now, at 8 and 4 when many of their peers still have issues.

I used to do it like this too. Then the crying intensified when her brother came along and I couldn't let her cry hysterically.

OP posts:
unicormb · 25/08/2022 15:04

Kids love routine. Baby disrupted old routine. Threw her off kilter. Her behaviour is her showing you why she needs routine.

I'm not talking militant, down the the second routine. Just a familiar way of doing things that is calm and led by an assertive adult.

turkeyboots · 25/08/2022 15:07

DD was a very poor sleeper until we moved baby DS into her room. Made bedtimes easier and she seemed happier not being alone. Maybe worth a shot?

Original poster
loonnie · 25/08/2022 15:14

turkeyboots · 25/08/2022 15:07

DD was a very poor sleeper until we moved baby DS into her room. Made bedtimes easier and she seemed happier not being alone. Maybe worth a shot?

Everything is worth a shot !

OP posts:
Marvellousmadness · 25/08/2022 15:31

And this is why you should let your kid learn to self settle and "cry it out " at a young age. Now you pay the price
And the price is your sanity op:(