Slow down of Suburbanization- will more people move to flats and small houses in the cities to reduce petrol costs, gas bills and electricity bills

[onthefencesitter]

My DH is convinced the above would happen. He thinks that the growth of the suburbs (commuter towns and outer london) was accelerated by expensive property prices in central areas but also by relatively low costs of fuel and gas for many years. This would no longer be the case so will people opt for smaller homes in locations where you can cycle and walk everywhere, thereby reducing costs. Did this happen in the 1970s?

I am not so sure...

Suburbs vs city living goes in trends. Growing up no one wanted to live in flats or townhouses in central London (unless second home in country) highly desirable locations now were virtual no go areas. I think the cost of living may force people to live in multi generational housing for financial comfort, it may also make people think twice about detached, especially older houses as they are significantly more expensive to heat but overall people aren't going to make drastic changes

I was saying this to dh, we are planning to move from our 3 bed terrace with a yard to a bigger ‘family’ style home in a couple of years but I was saying that I don’t mind having less space - we will just have to have less stuff, and that’s fine by me! - in order to not have a bigger house to heat, a garden to water, etc. I’d even be happy in a really nice new build eco friendly apartment that’s dead easy to heat with two dc, if we had two big bedrooms or even three, but dh thinks that’s mental.

@QuebecBagnet

Basically yes. When Putin goes then then hope is the new regime will want to distance them themselves from his policies and rejoin the international community - supplying cheap gas may be a good bargaining chip.

It’s no cheaper to heat 1 or 2 or 3 floors. It’s per Sqm size to heat, and obviously insulation and type/ age will affect. But a new build flat that’s 70m2 v new build house at 70m2 will use the same heating.

The only advantage you get is if people underneath heat their super hot, which you probably won’t get in future. Same applies if you live in a terrace house and either side heat loads

Ps those of us not in London don't have this choice, we have to drive to work because there's no public transport. Thankfully for me it's only 6 miles each way but others are much further. It's a trading estate with zero public transport on it (2 miles to bus stop and that route is stopping on 30/9 for good) and as the only route that's 6 miles is via one junction on the motorway cycling isn't an option (cycling route is 14 miles!)

I got the gist, i agree with that. The British have never liked flats so I guess even high energy bills probably would not change that. Its funny but the only white british people I know who have bought flats in the last 5 years are Jewish (DH included) and that is mainly because the areas they prefer are very expensive.

An older lady I know who owns a flat in hampstead told me that when her flat was built in the 1930s, british people refused to buy it so instead jewish refugees like her grandparents as well as spanish immigrants bought the flats.
Other people I know who have bought flats in London are Japanese, Hongkongers, African (mostly not UK Born and bred).

I do think the 2 up 2 downs might become more popular. My colleague bought such a house and she did a loft conversion and also an extension. Its probably not that expensive to heat as its still quite small. But she has 3 bedrooms- so theoretically good enough for a small family.

WRT flats specifically I think a lot depends on how people feel about being too hot vs too cold. Flat living would concern me because even when I did it a few years back, with lower average temperatures than now, it was often very unpleasant in warm weather. That worries and bothers me more than being cold.

I'd choose a property that was easier to keep cool in summer but meant me having to be frugal with heating in the winter over one that was warmer all year round. Equally, somebody who feels the cold badly and thinks thirty degrees plus counts as lovely weather might find the flat more practical for their temperature preferences.

My parents bought in z2/3 London in the 70s, they were immigrants & it was much cheaper than home counties which I think was more desirable then. I remember an old school geography book saying inner London was the ghetto & not where people wanted to live 😆

Errr me for all the reasons OP is saying others might. I can’t be alone…

Other people I know who have bought flats in London are Japanese, Hongkongers, African (mostly not UK Born and bred).

Those are all societies where people will be used to hotter summers than ours, so that might also fit with my point about attitudes to accommodation that keeps heat in during heatwaves.

Oh yeah, i grew up in a tropical country. Had PE lessons in 35 degree heat growing up. Was in my element during the heat wave :)

That’s not to say I don’t absolutely think that leasehold reform is needed.

People in the UK are weirdly house obsessed. I bought my flat because it has a lovely aspect over green, faces south but due to window placement/building type is not hot in summer or too cold in winter, has three bedrooms but is not cavernous.

It is centrally located and I walk or cycle everywhere. I don’t understand why it’s always “flat or house” instead of looking at the what you actually need from a property.

Just to say I am British born from a long line of British people (to my sadness! I’d love some more diverse relatives)

The suburbs might have higher energy bills and commuting costs, but those are still offset by the lower prices. Then you add in the lifestyle, space, access to the outdoors, and most importantly noise. Not having to hear your neighbors is worth a lot.

I wouldn't say no to a flat in central London tbh

but I hate London in the heat 😆

Oof no, that sounds like a nightmare to me! A flat on somewhere like the north coast of Scotland, on the other hand, might go for that.

Update to the thread- I did just notice a 3 bed terraced house on my MIL's street (close to where I live) selling for around the same price bracket as the 3 bed flats in my area that I am considering! It is a definite drop. I know the area well,; it's a nice road and the houses all have gardens but the main buyers of houses there fall into 2 categories - religious Jewish families and landlords.

Landlords are not buying for obvious reasons and inflation must be hitting the religious Jewish community badly (as they tend to have many children and inflation is worse when you have a big family). Plus kosher food goes up more.... Could that be the reason????

Inflation usually affects the people with the slimmest margins (usually poor people but also people with the highest base costs like big families) so maybe this area is experiencing it first but it will spread as inflation gets worse....

Properties with fewer sides to heat like terraces and flats are easier to heat. As well as insulating effect of surrounding properties. Age of building is also a factor of course and insulation...

I am now fairly sure energy price Cap would be £10k by end of next year...

In my city atm (Brighton) they are building a lot of family sized (2 and 3 bed) flats...I am curious to see if they will end up being popular or not.

I have always lived in a flat, raised my children in a flat- shock, horror!-and have never wanted a house( particularly not now). But I am not British born.

I'd rather stick pins in my eyes than live in a big city again.

I just compared the EPC estimated energy spend of a 100 sq metre flat with that of a neighbour's terraced house. Terraced house cost 30% more to heat...

Or rather projected energy usage was 30% more!

I certainly think people will pay a lot more attention as to how energy efficient a property is, if the fuel prices stay this high. I think the big old period properties will be less appealing.