To think it’s time for a general strike

[Mountainatmygates]

I am old enough to remember the poll tax riots which did eventually bring about a shift in policy.

The country is on its knees - I read yesterday that energy bills could hit 6k a year in the spring and put 45 million into fuel poverty.

it’s completely nuts and the current government are wholly to blame after 12 years in power. I have just been in France where bills have risen 4% because the energy companies are nationalised.

I think it’s genuinely time for some collective action.

@bluelavender well to listen and understand the sheer scale of the problem which all are failing to do at the moment. Sunak and Truss have offered nothing. No solutions. Truss just makes scathing comments about handouts.

I’m more interested in how the previous poster intends to bring about the utopia she thinks that we should introduce by this time next week. Consisting of:

government that has the interest of society and the entire electorate at heart instead of an elite few

make our community and society a fair one with opportunity and a basic standard of living by keeping things that we still consider basic human rights a national interest rather than profit driven.

value people for their merit and contribution rather than met (sic) worth

How would a general strike make those things happen?

How do you plan to force everyone in Britain to ‘value people for their merit and contribution rather than their net worth’? Even people selling very expensive things to rich people? What would you have the private jet and superyacht salespeople do, to demonstrate their commitment to this ideal, for example?

@Mountainatmygates

So where do you propose the money comes from to nationalise such companies? Based on the water companies profits it would cost about 300 billion to nationalise water. Or do you think the government should just appropriate these companies?

How would a general strike make those things happen?

Strikes & protest are the main way that the proles get their voices heard and how change happens in the workplace. How else can workers protect themselves from unscrupulous employers/governments that fail to act in their best interests. We are heading back to Victorian Britain without those things (maternity rights, paid holidays, minimum wages etc)

it’s no coincidence that the tories want to ‘rip up’ the EU protections and laws. The new charter cities/ Freeport’s are exactly what they aspire to.

So all those posters being scathing about what a general strike would achieve. It’s a way of standing up to a government that is elected to protect its citizens but is currently failing to do that.

@AlexandriasWindmill How is the nationalisation of companies to be realistically achieved? They can't just be taken over at no cost.

@Mountainatmygates if your main objective is to raise more awareness of the scale of the problem, would a general strike be the best way to achieve this? A general strike could increase food shortages and inflation (as goods on shelves become more scarce). Of course, employees have a right to withdraw their labour, and we are seeing many people choosing to do this by resigning from jobs that they dislike or feel are underpaid, and moving to jobs that they prefer.

I do get that inflation in food and utility costs is terrifying, and I think that as a society we need to make sure that everyone has access to food, heat and water. More should be done right now to offer proper reassurance to people on this.

But if your main objective really is making sure that more vulnerable people are looked after then general strikes might not be the best way to achieve it; particularly as it will make people even more fearful

What would the strikers' demands be.

This thread sounds to me like it's "do something" without actually much thought on what the desired outcome is, and how strikes would make it better.

@Flapjacker48 its really not impossible

www.opendemocracy.net/en/andrew-fisher-labour-nationalise-energy-national-grid-privatisation/

@RoseAndRose feel free to suggest alternatives then

A general strike would be a good first step. It's also an inevitability. When people can't afford to eat or heat their home - even when they're working fulltime - there is no incentive to work.

When people can't afford to eat or heat their home, they can't afford to commute or wfh.

The Tories have forgotten that work is supposed to be about dignity and that they were supposed to be the party for a nation of shopkeepers not the party for global conglomerates. They're also forgetting that multi-nationals need a fit and able workforce. The economy also relies upon the workforce having disposable income. They're trashing the economy with their shortsightedness.

@AlexandriasWindmill spot on!

I don’t think that you have understood the question. I’ll rephrase it, very bluntly.

How will a general strike fundamentally change human nature?

Because that’s what the PP was proposing. By next week, before our general strike, every human being in Britain (and presumably the world) has to fundamentally change such that they don’t value wealth and have everybody’s interests at heart, not just their own. And “consider basic human rights a national interest rather than profit driven”, although I’m still trying to work out what that actually means. I’m sure that the PP thought that it sounded good, though.

It would be based on their share price not profits.

On costs, the Govt may end up paying 100s of billions over the next 2 or 3 years to stop people freezing to death, money that will go straight to the the privatised utilities, which we will never see again.

France produces around 80% of its own electricity requirements, the UK approx 50% of its energy, why can't we control the price of that 50%, whilst still meeting our obligations to sell gas to Europe when we have a surplus (summer)

This is what (part) nationalisation of energy would do.

I notice it is being talked about by members of all the political parties now.

@Mountainatmygates And nationalising energy suppliers achieves what exactly? Like it or not energy bill mainly reflect a.) the wholesale cost of oil and gas and b.) the governments tax regime for energy

So how does this nationalisation reduce the cost of gas and electricity?

There has indeed been a failure of energy policy for 50 or more years and yes, privatisation was a bad idea, but I think that people who say that "nationalisation" is a magic bullet have not really thought about the issue.

@Iamthewombat you are assuming everyone thinks like you. You are not offering any solutions to the fact that 45 million people are facing food poverty this winter. 18 million households. That is a fundamental change in society happening right now. We are offering one way to stand up and challenge that fact.

She asked how it would be paid for, which is a reasonable question. I read your link. It suggested that the big five energy companies could be renationalised - by the government buying all of their shares - for £2.8 billion.

It took me two minutes to establish that British Gas alone has a market capitalisation of almost £5 Bn. So I might take the numbers in the report you linked to with a pinch of salt.

@Flapjacker48 well give us some alternative solutions then!

there are posters coming on here and being scathing about striking or re- nationalisation.

offer us some ideas then that deal with the social catastrofuck that is about to hit this country.

@Iamthewombat give is your solutions then instead of ripping apart every idea that is proposed on here.

Open a coal-fired power station in the UK and see what happens. That's the problem. And where are the £billions coming from to nationalise E companies because you cannot just size or take over commercial organisations, and does that include Shell and BP ?. And a general strike is just about the most regressive and nihilistic thing ever. The source of supply is the key so I'm sure that will have a great impact in Qatar or Norway.

Ah, perhaps slightly clearer now what the overall objective of the strike might be? Andrew Fisher is an established political writer and activist. He was also suspended from the Labour party for backing a very left wing organisation, Class War at a previous general election

We are in a free society where people can campaign for different political ideas. But if the main purpose of a general strike is perhaps more of a 'workers of the world unite and destroy capitalism', then just wondering, but would it not be better to be more open about this and the sort of society that you'd like in future instead of this (admirably flawed, but probably than many of the alternatives) society that we have right now?

You have no idea how I think. I’ve challenged some lazy statements on this thread.

Nor do I need to offer an alternative solution. Yours won’t work. I know that you don’t want to hear that. Others are allowed to challenge you without producing a fully costed blueprint that they have worked up in the half hour since reading your OP.

@Flapjacker48 Nationalising billing does little, its the generation and production that needs to be taken into public ownership, which is what France has done with EDF.

Part nationalisation, as was done with the banks to prevent economic melt down.

NS gas is extracted under licence, Shell/BP don't own those fields.

Innovative ways have to be at least considered, gas prices my stay very high for a number of years, costing the govt 100s of billions.

We are a country that believes in collective responsibility. People who weren't at the poll tax protests or the bedroom tax demos, won't understand the purpose of collective action.

And there are not enough words or posts to explain it to them because they are wilfully ignoring the history of protest in this country. They're wilfully ignoring the history of workers' rights. They're wilfully ignoring that the general working population is the bedrock on which everyone else's wealth rests.

They foolishly believe that waving excessive consumption in people's faces is a real economic strategy. They hope their smoke and mirrors will blind people to where the real power rests in any country - in its people - not in global companies with no loyalty and no stakes.

@Mountainatmygates I'm afraid there are no (short term, even medium term) answers, the UK is about to get a lot poorer with a serious decline in living standards.

If thats the case, how can you be so dismissive of ideas that you have only considered for 30mins?