To not agree with this school reward system?

[Danceswithduck]

Dd is headed to secondary school in September and they’ve done the big sell on their reward system of merits or whatever that are calling them.
If they get enough over the course of each term they can opt into trips. More points equals better and more exciting trips 🙄
Now I appreciate some kids might need this but dd is very intrinsically motivated and doesn’t need this stupid system. All it does is take away any natural motivation to strive to do well. No wonder the education system struggles. We have to bribe children and then they lose their natural curiosity and intrinsic motivation.
DD has been brought up to be very motivated but that will be knocked out of her by these types or reward systems, although no doubt some in her class need to be bribed to behave or make any effort.
DD likes to learn for the sake of learning. These systems take that away.
AIBU?

I agree. Our old school had a points system, but they were awarded for different reasons by different teachers. One would give points if you did particularly well in homework or in a debate or essay. One did it if you were normally pretty distracted but did well that class. One did it if you were helpful to another student/teacher.
Most of the time they were given to those who were a bit wayward as encouragement. But my daughter pointed out that if you were well behaved all the time and did your best effort every day you were not rewarded that much.
There was no prize other than a particular house 'winning' by getting the most points collectively over the term, so there wasn't any real consequence to get but getting more points.
Having trips based on this system seems totally unfair.

The system is not perfect but needed to help prevent low and high level disruption in classes. What do you think happens to those children to don't have intrinsic motivations? They often disrupt lessons which means your child's education will suffer.

It always feels like whenever anyone suggests looking at psychological research to guide pedagogical practice they always seem to go for the new, exciting, and largely untested stuff like learning styles or… something about rubbing your chest and buttons? Or it's implemented in ways that aren't justified by the research, like classes for all kids on mental health, mindfulness and CBT techniques, when we don't know what will happen when masses of previously healthy teens are encouraged to dwell on their bad feelings like this (paywalled, sorry: www.newscientist.com/article/mg25534002-000-uk-schools-are-teaching-teenagers-about-mental-health-in-the-wrong-way/).

A few years ago, my Freeview box used to pick up Teachers TV and it was heaving with dodgy psychological fads and not so much of the more established stuff (and I recognise that, as the article linked above by @Assistanttotheregionalmanager demonstrates, motivation is complex, and all our actions are motivated in some way by rewards and penalties, even if it's sometimes intangible and difficult to properly untangle, but there is at least a lot of research going on for decades with observable results, even if the theory is disputed).

I think they're awful. I remember missing out some of the bigger trips that were for those who had received lots of gold stars. Because I was a mostly well behaved, quiet student who did well (all Bs and Cs at GCSE) but not amazingly well, I didn't often get gold stars because I didn't stand out enough to recieve them for being 'hard worker' or 'good example' and I didn't misbehave so I didn't get them for 'trying hard' or 'listening well for a whole lesson'. When I got to secondary school I had big issues with forgetting my homework and books (diagnosed ADHD as an adult so not something I could 'just remember' despite all the organisation systems in place). These reward systems are so damaging to the average student and I am astounded that they still exist.

I agree too OP, reward systems linked to trips are terrible for so many kids. It means they are punished months later for something they probably can’t even remember. There are loads of ways to build motivation in class, external rewards only work for a handful of kids.

Yes. It sounds like your DD has everything in her favour. Many kids do not. Some will find school really hard, because they simply don't have the innate academic ability. Or their home situation is awful. Or they struggle with the social stuff.

It is WAY harder to be intrinsically motivated when you have all that against you. And what might seem like only a very small positive step in attainment to most kids, can be massive for a kid who struggles. Yet most people won't even have noticed or cared that they achieved it. So yes, they should be recognised. And any negative effect on your daughter (if there even if one) is of far less impact than the positive one for that child.

Is it possible to devise policies that will permit maintenance of intrinsic motivation in those who have it, while providing extrinsic motivation to those who need it, and what would that look like in a school?

It looks like streaming.

Your daughter will benefit from the awards scheme too.

You are going to be one of those parents aren't you.

Support the school or send her elsewhere

Except it’s so unlikely that a struggling child would be able to ‘behave’ all year long for the motivation of a trip at the end. Particularly if they do have a hard time at home and come to school hungry/tired/emotional. It’s another barrier for them.

I agree. It’s more of a punishment system. Trips are educational and if anything, help less motivated pupils to stay motivated and love school more. Maybe I’d understand when the efforts are rewarded with something like a book gift or a voucher or similar. Not a trip. Too divisive.

They don't have to go on the trips. If your child doesn't want to take part, they don't have to. The school is there for all the children not just yours.

@ThanksAntsThants
because you don’t have to go and work in a particular place. Because the fact you managed getting employed, you already proved to be equal to your colleagues by passing all the requirements. Children do not have a choice. They are not adults, their personality is still developing. They also are under immense pressure, much more so comparing to adults. I can’t even start talking about those disadvantaged who don’t stand a chance for so many reasons. This system is cruel and will destroy many.

Streaming as we know it doesn't do that… there'll be kids capable of very high academic achievement who study for the joy of it, and kids capable of very high academic achievement who need external rewards and penalties to apply themselves.

Does anywhere even do streaming any more? I thought that went out decades ago in favour of subject-specific setting (and, I suppose, in some areas, the grammar system is a kind of separate-building streaming).