Page 14 | Men holding hands in the Street

girlfriend44 · 2022-08-20T19:00:24+00:00

Saw two men walking along hand in hand earlier and I admired their bravery and thought hope nobody starts on them. Have seen women before but not men? Do you think they were brave. Would you be scared for them if they were your sons? Brave men. Perhaps it's something we will see more of in the future?

SarahAndQuack · 21/08/2022 00:13

RisingSunn · 21/08/2022 00:06

@SarahAndQuack yes, really!

Ok, well, you'll have to forgive a non-Londoner if I make mistakes about what's considered central London. But, I'm a little tiny bit nervous when I google 'central London' and 'homophobic attack' and get results like this:

www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/pair-injured-homophobic-attack-south-bank-b1019750.html

www.mylondon.news/news/london-borough-highest-level-homophobic-24762361

www.pinknews.co.uk/2020/05/22/london-homophobia-attack-piccadilly-circus-underground-met-police-witnesses/

www.dazeddigital.com/politics/article/54524/1/young-gay-men-share-horrifying-stories-amid-rising-uk-anti-lgbtq-hate-crimes

I got a bit disturbed after this, but obviously you could find the same and more by googling. Please tell me why I shouldn't think this is homophobic violence?

Molly887 · 21/08/2022 00:14

Cherchezlaspice · 21/08/2022 00:08

We live here and we call it Hackers. Literally nobody gives a shit if you don’t like it.

Nobody is saying homophobes aren’t everywhere. The same way there are racists everywhere and the swankiest area might have a rapist round the corner. However, Hackers is one of the most culturally, ethnically and economically diverse areas in one of the most culturally, ethnically and economically diverse cities on the planet. LGBT+ culture is a major part of that and men holding hands would not be a remarkable sight. The fact that seems to upset you is very odd.

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The questions whether it’s still brave in Hackney. It absolutely is. Perhaps stop patting yourself on the back and listen to people who have experience.

SarahAndQuack · 21/08/2022 00:15

Cherchezlaspice · 21/08/2022 00:08

We live here and we call it Hackers. Literally nobody gives a shit if you don’t like it.

Nobody is saying homophobes aren’t everywhere. The same way there are racists everywhere and the swankiest area might have a rapist round the corner. However, Hackers is one of the most culturally, ethnically and economically diverse areas in one of the most culturally, ethnically and economically diverse cities on the planet. LGBT+ culture is a major part of that and men holding hands would not be a remarkable sight. The fact that seems to upset you is very odd.

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Ok then. So, why are gay men targets of such appalling violence where you live?

Vegay · 21/08/2022 00:17

Hi OP,

Thanks for your post, it really touched me and think it's caused some healthy discourse and highlighted a very important issue that still exists. I agree that they are brave.

To the person who said you are homophobic, and to the people who said they thought they'd been transported back to the 60s/70s/80s blah blah, I say to them, get your head out of your arse and don't be so naive.

To everyone who has said that they wouldn't bat an eyelid, I thank you all and I really wish there were more people like you in the world.

I'm a 41 year old gay man, I've been with my dp for 22 years. I could probably count the amount of times we've held hands in public on all of my fingers - the majority of those times would've been at a Pride festival, or when we were drunk. I've never ever faced serious homophobia either, but I'm scared that I could. Homophobia still exists. It's absolutely heartwarming to read so many comments from people saying 2 men holding hands in public is something that they wouldn't even think about.

Suzy14837 · 21/08/2022 00:17

Pinkflipflop85 · 20/08/2022 20:02

I wouldn't think anything of it because it's been a perfectly normal thing to see in our area for many years.

It depends where you live. You might see more of it somewhere there is a big and prominent gay community like Brighton - but even though I live in London, I am always surprised at how infrequently I see it.
In fact I saw a male/male couple holding hands in my area the other day and it turned my head because it's still such an unusual sight. I know plenty of gay men and women around here and while to me (I'm not gay), it feels a nice tolerant area and no big deal, they clearly don't feel comfortable showing off their same-sex relationship status here.

User8273738273737 · 21/08/2022 00:20

Vegay · 21/08/2022 00:17

Hi OP,

Thanks for your post, it really touched me and think it's caused some healthy discourse and highlighted a very important issue that still exists. I agree that they are brave.

To the person who said you are homophobic, and to the people who said they thought they'd been transported back to the 60s/70s/80s blah blah, I say to them, get your head out of your arse and don't be so naive.

To everyone who has said that they wouldn't bat an eyelid, I thank you all and I really wish there were more people like you in the world.

I'm a 41 year old gay man, I've been with my dp for 22 years. I could probably count the amount of times we've held hands in public on all of my fingers - the majority of those times would've been at a Pride festival, or when we were drunk. I've never ever faced serious homophobia either, but I'm scared that I could. Homophobia still exists. It's absolutely heartwarming to read so many comments from people saying 2 men holding hands in public is something that they wouldn't even think about.

👍👍👍👍

Molly887 · 21/08/2022 00:21

Vegay · 21/08/2022 00:17

Hi OP,

Thanks for your post, it really touched me and think it's caused some healthy discourse and highlighted a very important issue that still exists. I agree that they are brave.

To the person who said you are homophobic, and to the people who said they thought they'd been transported back to the 60s/70s/80s blah blah, I say to them, get your head out of your arse and don't be so naive.

To everyone who has said that they wouldn't bat an eyelid, I thank you all and I really wish there were more people like you in the world.

I'm a 41 year old gay man, I've been with my dp for 22 years. I could probably count the amount of times we've held hands in public on all of my fingers - the majority of those times would've been at a Pride festival, or when we were drunk. I've never ever faced serious homophobia either, but I'm scared that I could. Homophobia still exists. It's absolutely heartwarming to read so many comments from people saying 2 men holding hands in public is something that they wouldn't even think about.

Thank you for posting this.

SarahAndQuack · 21/08/2022 00:23

Vegay · 21/08/2022 00:17

Hi OP,

Thanks for your post, it really touched me and think it's caused some healthy discourse and highlighted a very important issue that still exists. I agree that they are brave.

To the person who said you are homophobic, and to the people who said they thought they'd been transported back to the 60s/70s/80s blah blah, I say to them, get your head out of your arse and don't be so naive.

To everyone who has said that they wouldn't bat an eyelid, I thank you all and I really wish there were more people like you in the world.

I'm a 41 year old gay man, I've been with my dp for 22 years. I could probably count the amount of times we've held hands in public on all of my fingers - the majority of those times would've been at a Pride festival, or when we were drunk. I've never ever faced serious homophobia either, but I'm scared that I could. Homophobia still exists. It's absolutely heartwarming to read so many comments from people saying 2 men holding hands in public is something that they wouldn't even think about.

👏

audeloquipalam · 21/08/2022 00:25

Jovanka · 20/08/2022 20:11

Where do you live where it isn't?!

Hackney

I think perhaps your metropolitan bubble is showing.

Cherchezlaspice · 21/08/2022 00:26

Molly887 · 21/08/2022 00:14

The questions whether it’s still brave in Hackney. It absolutely is. Perhaps stop patting yourself on the back and listen to people who have experience.

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I live in Hackney. I am bi. I have lived in Hackney dating women and I now live in Hackney with my husband. I live opposite a famous queer venue. I worked in a queer bookshop throughout uni. My friends are queer.

This is our experience. The fact that it doesn’t fit into your parochial world view is unfortunate. But, no, two men walking down the street holding hands would not be remarkable here. I wouldn’t think they were brave. I wouldn’t worry about them. I wouldn’t think anything at all. Perhaps YOU should listen to the experiences of others.

This does not mean that homophobic crime never happens here. Crime of all kinds happens everywhere.

Cherchezlaspice · 21/08/2022 00:30

SarahAndQuack · 21/08/2022 00:15

Ok then. So, why are gay men targets of such appalling violence where you live?

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If you have stats that indicate gay men are targets of such appalling violence where I live, please share them. Thus far, you’ve linked an article detailing one (horrific) crime.

Me: Hackers is LGBT+ friendly and that wouldn’t be a remarkable sight.

You: For that to be true, Hackney must never have any homophobic crime! I’ve found a homophobic crime, therefore you are wrong! Also, how dare you call your home something I don’t like! You and the other (non white immigrants) who call if that are in a Jilly Cooper novel!

That’s not rational. If you can’t see how it’s irrational, then I’m actually quite sorry for you.

SarahAndQuack · 21/08/2022 00:31

Cherchezlaspice · 21/08/2022 00:26

I live in Hackney. I am bi. I have lived in Hackney dating women and I now live in Hackney with my husband. I live opposite a famous queer venue. I worked in a queer bookshop throughout uni. My friends are queer.

This is our experience. The fact that it doesn’t fit into your parochial world view is unfortunate. But, no, two men walking down the street holding hands would not be remarkable here. I wouldn’t think they were brave. I wouldn’t worry about them. I wouldn’t think anything at all. Perhaps YOU should listen to the experiences of others.

This does not mean that homophobic crime never happens here. Crime of all kinds happens everywhere.

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So, to translate ... a woman with a male partner thinks that no one experiences homophobic violence where she lives. Even though there is evidence that, quite recently, appalling homophobic violence has happened there.

And the answer is 'crime happens everywhere'?
What is wrong with you?!

Why can you not accept that, just maybe, being a person in a hetero relationship, you don't see what people in same-sex relationships see, even in your seemingly safe area of London? Why can't you recognise that what's happened locally to you is really scary?

FWIW, I'm a lesbian living in the arse end of nowhere. There is a lot of homophobic feeling. We've had letters through the door and comments to our faces. But there's no history of any kind of physical attack here. Statistically, where we live is a whole lot safer than where you live. Brushing off hate crimes by saying that they 'happen everywhere' is a really shitty thing to do.

Molly887 · 21/08/2022 00:33

Cherchezlaspice · 21/08/2022 00:26

I live in Hackney. I am bi. I have lived in Hackney dating women and I now live in Hackney with my husband. I live opposite a famous queer venue. I worked in a queer bookshop throughout uni. My friends are queer.

This is our experience. The fact that it doesn’t fit into your parochial world view is unfortunate. But, no, two men walking down the street holding hands would not be remarkable here. I wouldn’t think they were brave. I wouldn’t worry about them. I wouldn’t think anything at all. Perhaps YOU should listen to the experiences of others.

This does not mean that homophobic crime never happens here. Crime of all kinds happens everywhere.

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I’m a woman in a same sex relationship. I live in London. I’ve experienced shit in Hackney. Not sure what more you want me to say.

Same sex couples are at some degree of risk wherever they are. That includes Hackney. Holding hands is brave, whether you see that or not as a straight person.

SarahAndQuack · 21/08/2022 00:33

(Oh, and I've been that woman in a relationship with a man, and I never reached this sort of nasty complacency. It's not inevitable, and you should think why you feel the need to deny the experiences of visibly gay people while you're in an opposite-sex relationship, rather than acting as a member of a LGBT community and an ally.)

redbigbananafeet · 21/08/2022 00:33

Jovanka · 20/08/2022 20:11

Where do you live where it isn't?!

Hackney

Glasgow

redbigbananafeet · 21/08/2022 00:35

SunnyD44 · 20/08/2022 20:34

So common in india

They actually link pinky fingers..

’
@brownbeauty80 this is my kind of holding hands 😆

Are there openly gay men in India?

This isn't a sign of homosexuality. The same as egypt. Before marriage there is a lot of male 'comforting' that happens in Islamic counties.

SarahAndQuack · 21/08/2022 00:38

Cherchezlaspice · 21/08/2022 00:30

If you have stats that indicate gay men are targets of such appalling violence where I live, please share them. Thus far, you’ve linked an article detailing one (horrific) crime.

Me: Hackers is LGBT+ friendly and that wouldn’t be a remarkable sight.

You: For that to be true, Hackney must never have any homophobic crime! I’ve found a homophobic crime, therefore you are wrong! Also, how dare you call your home something I don’t like! You and the other (non white immigrants) who call if that are in a Jilly Cooper novel!

That’s not rational. If you can’t see how it’s irrational, then I’m actually quite sorry for you.

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Oh, I'm so sorry. One appalling homophobic attack is clearly fine. Goodness! I'm so embarrassed - I had no idea we were meant to put up with one attack before we started to think about statistics.

Cherchezlaspice · 21/08/2022 00:42

SarahAndQuack · 21/08/2022 00:31

So, to translate ... a woman with a male partner thinks that no one experiences homophobic violence where she lives. Even though there is evidence that, quite recently, appalling homophobic violence has happened there.

And the answer is 'crime happens everywhere'?
What is wrong with you?!

Why can you not accept that, just maybe, being a person in a hetero relationship, you don't see what people in same-sex relationships see, even in your seemingly safe area of London? Why can't you recognise that what's happened locally to you is really scary?

FWIW, I'm a lesbian living in the arse end of nowhere. There is a lot of homophobic feeling. We've had letters through the door and comments to our faces. But there's no history of any kind of physical attack here. Statistically, where we live is a whole lot safer than where you live. Brushing off hate crimes by saying that they 'happen everywhere' is a really shitty thing to do.

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Where are these statistics, please? I’ve asked for them, but they don't appear to be forthcoming. I wonder why?

Yes, crime happens everywhere. That’s the nature of crime. However certain crimes happen significantly less in certain places, to the extent that they are not a major factor in people’s day to day lives. I live here and I’m not scared. Nobody I know is scared. We’re not going to be scared because you think we ought to be.

That’s an interesting ‘translation’. It’s also ignorant bigoted nonsense. The fact that I’m not straight has been overlooked (cool bi erasure! Well done!). The fact that I’ve lived here whilst dating other women is overlooked. The fact that my circle and surroundings are queer are all overlooked.

So, based on the above, I'm now wondering what’s wrong with you. But, to be honest, I’m not particularly invested in finding out. You, my love, can piss right off.

TheLassWiADelicateAir · 21/08/2022 00:43

Livelovebehappy · 20/08/2022 23:38

Erm, yes I have. But I think more people have said they’ve witnessed hand holding going unnoticed in cities and towns than not…..

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Did you gloss over the posts referring to homophobic attacks in London?

Rottenpumpkin · 21/08/2022 00:43

LastWordsOfALiar · 20/08/2022 20:09

Where do you live where it isn't?!

My close relative is lesbian and talks about how she'd be worried about being openly gay in most places.

I think you're ignorant to homophobia.

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Maybe some people just don't care enough?

You don't get to label others ignorant just because they have different priorities to you.

Such arrogance.

Rottenpumpkin · 21/08/2022 00:46

SarahAndQuack · 21/08/2022 00:31

So, to translate ... a woman with a male partner thinks that no one experiences homophobic violence where she lives. Even though there is evidence that, quite recently, appalling homophobic violence has happened there.

And the answer is 'crime happens everywhere'?
What is wrong with you?!

Why can you not accept that, just maybe, being a person in a hetero relationship, you don't see what people in same-sex relationships see, even in your seemingly safe area of London? Why can't you recognise that what's happened locally to you is really scary?

FWIW, I'm a lesbian living in the arse end of nowhere. There is a lot of homophobic feeling. We've had letters through the door and comments to our faces. But there's no history of any kind of physical attack here. Statistically, where we live is a whole lot safer than where you live. Brushing off hate crimes by saying that they 'happen everywhere' is a really shitty thing to do.

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Your lifestyle choice.

No one else cares despite the big fuss the media makes.

Don't flatter yourself.

Cherchezlaspice · 21/08/2022 00:47

Molly887 · 21/08/2022 00:33

I’m a woman in a same sex relationship. I live in London. I’ve experienced shit in Hackney. Not sure what more you want me to say.

Same sex couples are at some degree of risk wherever they are. That includes Hackney. Holding hands is brave, whether you see that or not as a straight person.

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Oooh, yet more bi erasure on this thread. Well done.

I don’t ‘want’ you to say anything. You tagged me and told me to listen to the experiences of others and I replied in kind. As you’ve just called me ‘a straight person’, clearly listening (or reading) isn’t something that interests you.

SarahAndQuack · 21/08/2022 00:52

Cherchezlaspice · 21/08/2022 00:42

Where are these statistics, please? I’ve asked for them, but they don't appear to be forthcoming. I wonder why?

Yes, crime happens everywhere. That’s the nature of crime. However certain crimes happen significantly less in certain places, to the extent that they are not a major factor in people’s day to day lives. I live here and I’m not scared. Nobody I know is scared. We’re not going to be scared because you think we ought to be.

That’s an interesting ‘translation’. It’s also ignorant bigoted nonsense. The fact that I’m not straight has been overlooked (cool bi erasure! Well done!). The fact that I’ve lived here whilst dating other women is overlooked. The fact that my circle and surroundings are queer are all overlooked.

So, based on the above, I'm now wondering what’s wrong with you. But, to be honest, I’m not particularly invested in finding out. You, my love, can piss right off.

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Terribly sorry, but when no homophobic attacks have happened, there's no statistical record!

You seem terribly upset at the idea that you might be less right-on than you think. And I'm sorry for that. You also seem to believe it's 'bi erasure' that you're in a relationship with a man, and that this materially changes the way your sexuality and relationship status might be interpreted in public. I'm sorry for that too. I'm not totally sure what you want me to do about it? You see, I don't have homophobic bigot friends who'll beat you up when they see you with a man, because they secretly know you're bi. On the whole, this isn't how bigotry works. I have spent a fair bit of my adult life in hetero relationships, and I was very conscious that my same-sex attractions were invisible. No one was beating me up for being attracted to women, because I was in a relationship with a man. It's pretty basic.

The fact we can't ignore is that, where you live, homophobic attacks have happened. It is silly, and naive, to pretend otherwise. It matters because this thread is full of people claiming that 'London' is a safe place for gay people (and gay people who are in visible gay relationships). This thread is full of people mocking the OP for even thinking homophobia exists. That's a really dangerous attitude.

Vegay · 21/08/2022 00:52

@Rottenpumpkin with all due respect, if you are not concerned about a cause, and have different priorities, the label of ignorance would not be an insult in that case, just a fact.

Unfortunately, you sound like a very ignorant individual - 'Your lifestyle choice'.

Bet you'd bring back section 28 in a heartbeat

AuntTwacky · 21/08/2022 00:53

Bi erasure? What on earth is that