I think the NHS could be fixed, AIBU?

[Dreamer14]

i am inspired to write this thread after two events:

1. my kid needs to see a doctor for a face to face appointment. A part of her body needs examining, in person. I have tried the virtual GP service. They were useless. It’s also not possible to get a face to face appointment in my GP surgery without first doing a stupid phone appointment.
2. my relative has an infection. She’s had it before and knows she needs antibiotics. No one will help her. 111 say go to GP. GP say no appointments.

Surely we can do better than this?

Ideas I have;

• give people more choice about appointments… if it is inefficient to do a phone one let’s not force people to do it
• we need to open up more GP surgeries and hospitals
• We need a separate service for elderly people -so many don’t need to call 999 but have no choice as there is no help elsewhere
• we need to help mental health patients before crisis (watching Ambulance the other day, so many people calling 999)
• We need to get with the times… stop sending letters and start Emailing people. Or texting. The NHS IT systems and processes are shameful.
• payment for some services (I’m happy to pay a small amount to my GP)
• attract more people to NHS jobs. I’d love to work helping people. But I’m a mum of 3 and I can’t afford to retrain. Some of these jobs could be done on the job and salaried. I’m not gonna pay £30k to go to uni for 3 years to be a biomedical scientist.
• sort salaries out. How much do execs earn? How many woke jobs can we do away with?
• I think we should pick a few areas in the uk and trial different things In Each one. Then we can scale up if it works.
• strip it back to only crucial services. Nothing woke. If you want something doing that is beyond the list. You pay for it.
• I’m a supporter of people that want to pick when and how they die if they get given an awful diagnosis. There are many people that get diagnosed with terminal diseases and don’t want to suffer.

ultimately we need the government to spend more but we also need the nhs to spend better.

I agree about getting rid of woke jobs

I agree. It’s not beyond salvation - but we’ll never get there because any mention of transformation leads to “but we’ll all be bankrupt like the US and nurses are angels”.

1. Absolutely fine if they follow the phone appointment up same day with an actual appointment. If not then yes its a bit shit.

A lot of elderly won't want texts and emails, my mum certainly wouldn't have.

The systems in France and Germany get a good press.

There just isn't the staff, my manager has a budget to recruit new staff, have been trying since before Christmas, not a single nurse has been recruited despite constant advertisement.

So it can be fixed and the first steps must be making sure we train enough staff and making sure that the job is attractive

It will take time as those things are coupled together

And not everything people want ( choice in appointments) could be given without significant costs

@fufflecake

sadly this is the process;

1. use the online gp who say she must have a F2f appointment

2. ring on Monday. I’m 99th in the queue. All appointments will be gone by time I get through.

3. ring on Tuesday at 8am on dot, wait in long queue, I’ll get an appointment where they insist it will be on phone. THIS IS A WASTE OF MONEY AND TIME AS THE FIRST PERSON TOLD ME IF MUST BE IN PERSON.

4. get a face to face appointment later that day

this process is horrible and money wasting

@lollipoprainbow

people should opt in or out of letters. How much would an email cost vs a letter and expensive leaflet to tell my I needed a smear test?

strip it back to only crucial services. Nothing woke. If you want something doing that is beyond the list. You pay for it.

Can you give any examples of what you mean by this?

It will only improve with more money. Until then, it's a group of very stressed and overworked people, paddling against the current towards a huge waterfall.
Without funding, its doomed.

i had a sinus infection, got it sorted same day via a trage phonecall and a gp phonecall, prescription sent to chemist job done. The "stupid" phone calls get people to the right person and weeds out the people who really do not need to be seen bevause they want to talk to the docrtor about how horrible their daughter is being or is lidl fruit as good for you as waitrose fruit (real examples). I am not sure about salaried on the job training...there are loads of professions within the NHS which do this but its not all do-able nor should it be. oh and yes I would strip back services offered. No more fertility treatment for a start....
oh and you do know don't you that GP's are contractors and not part of the NHS?

All that is great but who is paying for it?

It's taken me a month and five trips to the GP to have a BUPA referral form filled in.

Wouldn't see me because it's a form.

Dropped form off as requested with pertinent information.

Collected form and paid £20 there were only six questions on the one page form including how long I'd been at the practice. All questions had been filled in as N/A unknown. Rejected by BUPA.

Rebooked appointment, next GP said he would write a referral letter but not fill in the form as his time was too stretched but bring form back if not acceptable.

Letter rejected by BUPA as it's not their form 🙈
Returned form, rang, explained. Receptionist spoke to both GP's who were... confused. 😡
Rebooked with third GP listed the above and asked why they were wasting my time and theirs, he filled in the form, took about 3 minutes.

How does one fix something like that? And I see myself as pretty determined/competent.

I'm going to be a debby downer here as I agree mostly but i think youre under estimating thr cost and resource required for this sort of project.

give people more choice about appointments… if it is inefficient to do a phone one let’s not force people to do it

• I agree but I guess it's quicker to do a phone appointment.

we need to open up more GP surgeries and hospitals

• with what gps and what money?

We need a separate service for elderly people -so many don’t need to call 999 but have no choice as there is no help elsewhere

• I agree but resourcing is an issue here, where would you get the staff, money and location to do this

we need to help mental health patients before crisis (watching Ambulance the other day, so many people calling 999)

• I agree but resourcing is also an issue here, where would you get the staff, money and location to do this

We need to get with the times… stop sending letters and start Emailing people. Or texting. The NHS IT systems and processes are shameful.

• I fully agree with this, it is starting tbf in my area but slowly.

how are we going to pay for this?
payment for some services (I’m happy to pay a small amount to my GP)

• good that you can, but most people can particularly at the minute. Alot of people would die with privatised healthcare

attract more people to NHS jobs. I’d love to work helping people. But I’m a mum of 3 and I can’t afford to retrain. Some of these jobs could be done on the job and salaried. I’m not gonna pay £30k to go to uni for 3 years to be a biomedical scientist.

• in all honesty it's probably more than £30k to retrain, but you need the background knowledge to do these jobs. An apprenticeship style may work for some, but there needs to be people available to train on the job, and those being trained won't be earning a decent salary whilst learning.

sort salaries out. How much do execs earn? How many woke jobs can we do away with?

• back end jobs are needed in most cases, e.g. those execs are the ones who would plan these projects your suggesting and manage the implementation. Though I agree with upping nurses salaries, with what money?

I think we should pick a few areas in the uk and trial different things In Each one. Then we can scale up if it works.

• which areas do you propose? And how are you deciding that?

strip it back to only crucial services. Nothing woke. If you want something doing that is beyond the list. You pay for it.

• this is already the case, do you want to strip it back further?

I’m a supporter of people that want to pick when and how they die if they get given an awful diagnosis. There are many people that get diagnosed with terminal diseases and don’t want to suffer.

• there is so much to consider with assisted dying, what if the patient isn't of sound mind, or pressured into it, or got suicidal thoughts. I agree but it isn't as simple as just implementing it.

It will go the same way as dental treatment has. We all end up paying for private treatment. People will get fed up of not being able to get nhs appt, so then £40 to see a private GP same day starts to look pretty good so they start that route. Then it becomes the norm.

I am a pensioner but I would be happy to pay more tax to fund health care. Unfortunately an awful lot of people don't want to pay. Having worked in the NHS for 40 years I am exasperated by the amount of waste and inefficiency in some areas and the underfunding in others.
I have family and friends in France and the health care there is excellent. Sure there are a few problems, but everybody pays national insurance according to their income and if you don't have income health care is free. Obstetric and post natal care is much better too.

Absolutely! And turn the bloody heating down - that should save a fortune! Our hospital and doctors surgeries are boiling hot, the heating is on all year round, with the windows open (a crack)! Ludicrous!

We also need to invest in providing better quality care to reduce the astronomically high litigation bill the NHS face every year.

I also agree with what you’ve said about the elderly. We need better and more attractive supported living set-ups. Too many lonely old people are living in huge 4 bedroom houses and are unable to take care of themselves (or the houses!). But, quite rightly, they don’t want to go and live in a care home as they think they’ll lose their freedom and never come out. There needs to be an affordable and attractive middle ground. Which would also solve the housing crisis, too.

Erm... the robbing scum who are pocketing as much as they can whilst telling us that the poor and immigrants are stealing our taxes?

People don't want to have to pay for it, thats the upshot.

They say they'd be happy to pay for a kind of part privatised service but when it came to it they wouldn't want that either.

Look at threads on IHT where people openly admit to hiding funds to avoid paying for derly care

People want immediate gold standard service but not if they have to pay for it.

The expectations some people have of what the nhs can or should be providing is crazy

It's a moot point anyway let's be honest. More money won't fix the NHS and its impossible to have any meaningful reforms. No politician will even try due to the shrieking response that always follows any mention of "Our NHS".

Are you aware that most GP surgeries are private businesses, they are not owned or run by the NHS.

Of course more money would fix the nhs

Its nonsense to suggest other wise

@hopeishere

if the service isn’t crucial then it should be done privately

examples:

• many cosmetic things that are not required. Years ago, NHS offered to chop of a mole because I said it was bothering me. It probably wasn’t needed for medical reasons. In the end I went privately as I wanted to minimise the scar.


• I think if you earn over a certain amount a small contribution should be made for IVF.


• ive got a relative that is demanding a surgical sterilisation. It’s not medically needed she just “doesn’t like other contraception”


• same with transgender surgeries and treatments. This should be at least partially self funded.

we probably need to scale back to crucial services like cancer, heart attacks, mental health, maternity, mental health etc.

once that is fixed we can add in other things

not most, ALL