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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to consider getting our child baptised a Catholic

83 replies

VicarOfBray · 21/01/2008 12:53

given that I am agnostic/atheist lapsed Catholic with some interest in religious issues, and dp is an anglican non-churchgoer with vaguely positive feelings towards it all.

There are lots of complicated reasons why we think we would like to have her baptised, and one very large, uncomplicated and unattractive one: the nearest and nicest primary school in our area is Catholic.

Would it be morally repugnant to get her baptised for the sake of her education?

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Brangelina · 21/01/2008 14:09

Ah well, if the unbaptised ones go to heaven too, then there's no point in going to the expense of a full blown christening is there?

Thanks for pointing that out cestlavie, I only read the headline I'm afraid.

harpsichordcarrier · 21/01/2008 14:09

imo it is far more morally repugnant (and unChristian) for schools to discriminate against children on the basis of their parents' religion. why shouldn't your child go to the nearest school? it is a very flawed and unpleasant way to run an education system.
anyway, no-one's business but yours how you bring up your child in the church or not. being a lapsed Catholic is a complicated matter and no-one is in a position to judge you.

nametaken · 21/01/2008 14:10

Oh Vicar I was in exactly the same position as you 10 years ago. All the schools here are rubbish, can't afford private, catholic school is excellent so I went for it.

Best thing I ever did and along the way, it has actually brought me closer to my religion. You will have to go to mass every week though if your school is over-subscribed but that's Ok isn't it?

Just to add, as a catholic I have no problem whatsoever with non catholics attending catholic school - you lot don't have to pretend you know, if there are places you can have them. But then again, I live in an area where there are not many catholics.

Also, those of you who pretend to be religious in order to get your lo into a better school I don't blame you one bit - we all want what's best for our lo's and I wouldn't hesitate one minute to do it if the roles were reversed.

Original poster
VicarOfBray · 21/01/2008 14:10

lol Brangelina

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Brangelina · 21/01/2008 14:13

No, I'm half Italian. My mother grew up in a convent herself and was beaten by nuns, yet she still thought it a nice idea for me to pursue a religious education. My school was nowhere near as bad as my mum's convent experience, in fact most of the nuns were very nice, but I couldn't stomach the continuous religious reference in everything we did.

We also used to try and embarrass the nun, but alas she had an answer for everything.

Original poster
VicarOfBray · 21/01/2008 14:17

hmmm - I can see why you wanted to break that cycle Brangelina.

My convent I think was fairly secular by comparison. Church twice a week and nuns everywhere, but religion certainly didn't seep into lessons. I would hope that was the case with faith schools nowadays.

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louloulouise · 21/01/2008 14:17

Personally no, I wouldn't, but I think you should go with your instincts and do what feels right for you.

We're in the opposite situation of being non believers (DH catholic but non practicing and practically non-believing, I was brought up firstly C of E and then Methodist but am now quite strongly atheist) and the situation of looking for a good school has compounded this. There are VERY few non-church schools in our area and I feel morally opposed to sending her to a school that states if you send your child there it should be because you believe in the ethos of the Church of England and support it. We were left with no choice but to put that school as our second choice, our third choice was non-demoninational but is realistically too far to travel and our first is a fantastic non-church school which is over subscribed year upon year and we don't have a huge amount of hope for DD being accepted there.

I'm sure you can guess which one she'll end up at, I won't be happy with it, but what can you do?!

Whoops, that turned into a bit of a rant - sorry to hijack. It's absolutely agonising trying to deal with stuff like this on top of simply choosing a school isn't it?

Why are schools so integrated with the church again?

Brangelina · 21/01/2008 14:21

loulou, ALL the private schools are catholic here. I'm desperately trying to gate my DD into the secular state pre-school which is hugely oversubscribed. The only other option which won't cost us a bomb as is subsidised by the council is a catholic school, usually run by nuns or priests.

prettycupcake · 21/01/2008 14:23

I don't understand your reasoning - are you and your Dh intending to turn to the Catholic faith and become members of the church community? - if not then I don't think you should do it.

Blu · 21/01/2008 14:25

Isn't the difficult question the relationship between you and your child, and what you say to her over it all?

imo (as uninvolved and ignorant bystander in the issue of churches and catholicism) by having her baptised etc you would be giving her a chance to be a catholic, like you had that chance. The issues of cultural identity, and security in a pattern of imparting a moral framework often hit 'lapsed' parents of many persuasions once they become parents - as prettyCandles demonstrated.

BUT she will be at a school where everyone knows you have to e a cathollic to get in. Will you want to be emphatic with her that you really really believe, and that's why you attend mass every week for as long as it takes to get the place? Will you share with her your own questions - and leave her to wonder the authority of the staff and priest who will play large roles in the school? Will you lie to your DD about your own belief? Or tell her the truth about your lapsed-ness and let her deduce, in due course, that you 'swung' it to get her into the school?

Original poster
VicarOfBray · 21/01/2008 14:27

Thanks harpsichord. It is a flawed system, but I don't know how else it could work without banning faith schools altogether.

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Original poster
VicarOfBray · 21/01/2008 14:27

Are you a catholic prettycupcake?

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cestlavie · 21/01/2008 14:30

Those are very good points by Blu, although I would say that getting your child baptised is not giving her the chance to be Catholic, it's obligating her to be raise and instructed as a Catholic (which incidentally, seems to be a pretty hard faith to walk away from).

loulou/ Brangelina: yes, it is incredibly annoying. Round us, not only is the best funded and best achieving school CoE, but if you want a secular primary school you've got a choice of two out of seven. Will contain my annoyance at just that comment, but could go on!

harpsichordcarrier · 21/01/2008 14:34

no need to ban faith schools, just state funded faith schools.
schools should serve their community and take children without discrimination. I don;t think that is hugely controversial tbh.

CatIsSleepy · 21/01/2008 14:35

If you can live with it, do it, plenty of people do.
Going to a good school shouldn't depend on what religion you are anyway-all kids should get the same chance to go to a decent school (well in an ideal world obviously...). It's just a shame so many parents have to jump through so many hoops to achieve this. Good luck with your decision.

prettycupcake · 21/01/2008 14:37

no am not catholic but am religious and wouldn't want someone to pretend to be something that they are not - I have no problem with people choosing their own beliefs but if you don't then I don't personally believe you should lie about it.

Original poster
VicarOfBray · 21/01/2008 14:42

Blu, I would absolutely not lie to her about my beliefs. But as someone mentioned earlier in the thread, there are levels of faith. Catholics vary hugely in their understanding of doctrine and in how literally they take the gospel. My mum and dad used to have quite heated discussions about doctrine all the time when I was growing up. Unless the priest and teachers at school are quite fundamentalist in their beliefs I don't see it as a problem. And if they are, then I wouldn't send her there anyway.

Harpsichord, yes I take your point, although I imagine it would be a tricky one politically.

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PortAndLemon · 21/01/2008 14:52

harpsi -- if you think that's non-controversial you must have missed the billion heated MN threads about it... (I agree with you BTW, which is why I know about the million heated MN threads).

scottishmummy · 21/01/2008 15:08

i am iterested out of curiosity how parents who are "agnostic/atheist lapsed Catholic with some interest in religious issues, and dp is an anglican non-churchgoer" will maintain the commitment and effort obtaining a place at RC school will entail
Eg Communion
Confirmation
Mass
listening to your child say "the priest said this..."

will you genuineley be able to keep a straight face and serene non-challenging silence (eg RC Doctrine and values)

i ask because i know that i couldn't i was raised RC and am completley
non-believing. baby not chrisstened, dont attend any faith/mass etc

Original poster
VicarOfBray · 21/01/2008 15:20

I don't feel very distant from all this stuff ScottishMummy as I do singing jobs in church pretty much every Sunday (although usually high church Anglican rather than Catholic).

Generally I find the values very positive, I like the emphasis on charity and on working towards peace, love etc, and I wouldn't argue with a lot of what is said in the mass.

I suppose if I have to pin down my feelings about the faith aspect Christianity and Catholicism in particular, I see it as an attempt to explain the inexplicable. I don't think there is anything wrong with this. But I think it is just one way to do this, albeit one that is ingrained in our history and culture (and particularly ingrained in my family history and culture).

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princessosyth · 21/01/2008 15:26

Until recently I would have said YABU but now I would just say go for it. Ds has just been turned down for a primary school place at every school in our town if we had gone to church we could have had a place at our local church school. I know loads of people that went along with this just to get a place in the school and I had thought that this was wrong but it is not a good feeling to know that my so called morals have deprived my son of an education. Put yourself and your family first, every other bugger does!

Original poster
VicarOfBray · 21/01/2008 15:29

Sorry princessosyth. That's awful. What will you do?

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princessosyth · 21/01/2008 15:31

If our appeal fails we will have to home educate until we find somewhere else to move to.

If I was in your shoes I would definitely baptise your child, after all you do have a faith you are just not as devout as others.

Original poster
VicarOfBray · 21/01/2008 15:42

That's shocking. Does the local authority not have an obligation to find your child a place somewhere?

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princessosyth · 21/01/2008 16:03

They have offered a place in another town but I can't get there as I don't have a car. I am not alone, loads of families have not been offered places due to the incompetence of the local authority.