Young people - workshy, or a wee bit canny?

[SwanBuster]

Inspired by a spirited discussion in the Scottish highlands.

A local cafe owner (late forties) was bemoaning his staffing situation to another forty something man, who was buying a coffee with his daughter. I was waiting for mine.

”I’m understaffed - can’t get the workers. I’m paying them 20% above minimum wage but the 18-30 generation don’t want to work - they’d rather sell drugs or be on benefits’.

The chap he was talking to said :

‘oh really - yeah it’s terrible that, they just don’t have the ethic’.

At this point I (another forty something) interjected, and said :

“Well, can we really blame them? Vast swathes of them have been disenfranchised through the cost of housing. They don’t see a path to a stake in society any more”

He said “Utter bollocks - I worked hard and they don’t want to”. The other guy agreed.

Then another guy (again forty something 😂) started agreeing with me, saying he sees it in the corporate world that it’s the sorted 50 somethings who bought cheap houses who are the workshy ones cruising along.

I agreed - imho, no point in working unless you get £100k. Only then can you hope to match the lifestyle of a retail worker from the past”

All the while a young person was waiting for her coffee looked very non pleased and the cafe owner apologised saying “not all young people obviously”

AIBU to think the young are right to “lie flat” and not bother if things don’t change?

It happened! 😂

We all enjoyed it too. I have proof it happened as well. I sent my partner to go and wind up the cafe owner more and she recorded it.

He had toned down a bit the second time.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The salary you offered was not high enough.
28k + benefits was a London graduate starting salary 16 years ago?
Why would you only be offering 30k now? You got poor quality candidates because the salary is poor. Are you offering 10% more than you were offering for the same post last year? If not, why not, when cost of living has increased by 10%?

Completely concur. My first job - not in London - as a grad was 24k twenty two years ago.

I graduated without any significant debt, and housing whilst getting expensive compared to three years previously, was still obtainable for reasonable salary multiples.

If I was a grad now, I’d want at least 40k, with a plan of action to get to £100k within 4-5 years.

Otherwise, no uni, min hours and benefits it is 👍

I feel really sorry for the young. As well as the poor economic future, they have global warming / environmental change to worry about.

Also IMO, the disparity between the rich & poor seems to be getting greater and greater.

But many of those just starting out in UK cities today are living in shared houses with rent so high they will never be able to save enough for a mortgage

I lived in shared accommodation in London for a decade from 1985 to 1995 working in a creative industry. There was never any way I was going to afford a house of my own even back then. We even endured the poll tax briefly! When I eventually got married we could just about afford a mortgage jointly on a small two bedroom flat outside of London, above a noisy garage. It was only after eight years of living very frugally in the flat that we could eventually afford a house in our late thirties/early forties and felt secure enough to have DC. And that is still our house now two decades on.

So yes, we were privileged to be able to get on the housing ladder eventually but it wasn't as easy as some people like to make out. I do very much feel for young people today, particularly with the environmental issues that we are facing, but many of the young people of my acquaintance are choosing to skip the decade living in shared accommodation to live with their parents instead, presumably bc that allows them to save too. I wasn't able to work and live with parents BC they lived very rurally where there were literally no jobs except those related to agriculture. And while I was renting a shared room in London there was no way I could save money, I only just scraped by from pay cheque to pay cheque.

I wonder if the cafe owner in the original op had factored in that his employees put up with a lot of crap from customers

tbh you couldn’t pay me enough to work in retail or hospitality
I certainly wouldn’t do it for nmw

I think it just seems like they aren’t ‘working as hard’ as their money isn’t working as well for them… my parents bought their home earning approx £50k, 20 odd years ago. To buy that house now you’d need to be earning atleast 200k, I can promise you now the same jobs do not pay ANYWHERE near that. It’s sad.

To be fair to him he was insisting that he was upping wages beyond inflation just to try and get people - he was paying more than minimum wage. But he still said that wasn’t enough. And it probably isn’t

I think he should be looking squarely at Global monetary policy and govenments of all tie colours fiscal policies over the last 40 years for the answer to why we’ve come to this point, not blaming young people.

My 21 yr old works really hard. He has had part time jobs since he was 16. He works full time now, then more hours if they are short staffed. He is also doing a full time uni course.

I work on an NHS ward, we have a 19 yr old who comes in for bank shifts alongside her full time job.
I hate the generalisation of young people that they are work shy and don't pull their weight.

@MintJulia

I would also argue, this isn’t a problem of THIS generation, but the previous generation…. Where was the parenting ?! Yes some common sense and initiative wouldn’t go amiss but actually a parent could help guide their children through this.

The only consensus we all had - cafe owner, supportive of him gent, me and the other bloke was that the states meddling has got us into this situation through making work not pay.

You’re right.

I’m guiding one of the kids towards a career where it pays £250k+. They are totally capable of getting on the path and milking the corporate teat.

the others who probably won’t get there because they aren’t as interested or scientifically minded I’ll be guiding towards benefits or enjoying pursuing the arts if things don’t change.

I’ve never earned that much, I live in zone 1, I’m a parent, I own a property, I’ll have a good pension when needed. Until very recently my income was our only income, I had a new car, I had holidays abroad.

All governments deliberately keep house prices high. In the UK we have only built housing on 2% of our land and that includes the gardens. If governments approved building on a further 1% of land we would very quickly have enough houses for everyone and the price of houses would fall considerably.

No government, lib lab or Tory will do this.

Of course young people are shafted in this country, with regards to housing especially. I'm amazed anyone can't see that. But it hasn't been easy for quite a long time. Generalisations can be both helpful and unhelpful. I'm 53 and privately rent in London, and 45% of my salary goes on rent. It sucks. My partner and I are devastated we didn't buy property in our youth but it felt beyond our reach even in the 1990s, when property prices were rising pretty fast. We felt prices 'couldn't possibly' keep rising and so waited. 🤦‍♀️

‘there's something very British about wanting everyone to suffer equally’

Very true. This is why we have Brexit and why we’re about to get the worst Prime Minister (Truss) this country has ever seen. She embodies spite. Our shores are encircled by sewage, our infrastructure is falling apart but many people are ok with this as long as others don’t have more than them.

😂 yes, thank you for proving my point exactly!

My own dad - one good but unspectacular salary (well less than the equivalent of £100k today) brought up two kids wanting for nothing, paid off house in 7 years, ended up with £1m pension pot + another £250k outside!

He knew the economic circumstances he was living in were a fantasy though and wasn’t myopic. Totally recognised that this was shafting his children.

• I guarantee the poster that said they have all 3 are over 45.

‘there's something very British about wanting everyone to suffer equally’

Oh god this is SO true. Sadly. I really don't get it. If someone can explain why this is the case I'd be very grateful!! 😄

This . We had no carpets for 3 years and I still have a chest of drawers that I was given in the late 80s today . There was absolutely nothing left in the pot after paying the mortgage and the bills .

My thoughts exactly! It is basic economics and shouldn’t be a surprise to the OP.

it’s weird the 100k salary thing.

Yes, house prices are v high, and kids need to be aware of all of this from a young age, so they can think about what careers might give them the lifestyle they are happy with (I discuss this with my 8 year old). But I’m sure there are multiple strategies for getting there. Eg can they live at home for extended period to save money then move outside london? Could they work abroad for a few years to save money? Are there remote working jobs to save on commuting costs and also live in cheaper area - with good internet? Could they save money to aim to retire abroad to a place with decent healthcare but where cost of living is lower?

"No point in working in case you get 100k"

How do people expect to get to that? Surely you work your way up to a high salary with experience and promotions and career moves along the way.

I am in my early 30s and I wouldn't say this is indicative of myself or my peers but maybe that's the company I keep.

When I left school and was working my goal was to save for a house deposit. The bank loan for a mortgage was three times your single annual wage or double your joint wage. If the same applied today and you’re on minimum wage then you’ve absolutely not a hope in hell of getting a mortgage and I’m sure that’s demotivating.

What's the job?