NHS Excluding people in treatment for mental health conditions.

[Heathe]

Going to enable voting but realise this may not do me any favours. I am currently in treatment for a mental health condition, and currently applying for roles within mental health trusts. I have previously worked during this treatment so can demonstrate I can handle treatment and working, however, many of the jobs are stating that a person has to be in recovery, has to have experience of recovery etc.

These are Lived Experience, Expert by Experience, Peer Support Roles, Support Worker roles etc.

I'm just wondering whether excluding people currently in treatment for mental health conditions is actually against the Equality Act as a mental health condition is a protected characteristic.

Apart from the fact it has made me feel completely inadequate and has really knocked my confidence, I am starting to feel really frustrated that people who are treating patients with mental health conditions are so open to excluding them in this way, particularly when many of us are in group therapy so we have experience of hearing and dealing with other people's concerns and issues.

I'm interested to hear if anyone has a legal perspective on this, or if anyone else has found this when applying for roles?

YANBU - this is shit

YABU - this is sensible

@Heathe Attending group supervision as a participant is not the same as attending as an employee. If you are being advised you need to be in recovery to be successful in gaining one of these posts you should focus on your recovery. Arguing or asking about legal standpoints is not going to demonstrate you are well enough to be employed.

@Andromachehadabadday I agree. I say that as someone who has had clinical depression, general anxiety disorder and an eating disorder. I think it also depends on the condition.

If my therapy was at 8pm at night (as it has been), I wouldn't actually have to say anything about it to anyone - there's no way they would no. So it's the timings of therapy as well (the NHS does not offer after work appointments sadly, and I cannot afford to switch back to private therapy - another bugbear about this whole situation).

But for some of us, there is literally no concept of recovery, it's learning to manage.

@Heathe the ironic thing is now I’m in, they couldn’t care less to try and support me when I’ve struggled and reached out!

I find it a vicious cycle. I’ve had psychological screening as moving to a department which deals with some particularly unpleasant incidents with flying colours because my MH is entirely unrelated to my job. However, I can’t get support for it as that will prevent me getting the same role elsewhere despite being able to prove I’m entirely capable of doing the role 🤷🏻‍♀️

Some things can’t be healed. I have struggled with anxiety and depression my whole life. I have ups and downs and I have some specific triggers. As long as I manage my triggers, I’m relatively fine and those triggers are generally not something I come across at work.

Arguing or asking about legal standpoints is not going to demonstrate you are well enough to be employed.

I am asking a question on mumsnet - I've hardly gone back to the NHS Trusts - and I am not one of the people who are talking to solicitors - I wanted to hear views, which I have, and which I have listened too.

I work on an inpatient ward and it is so so hard at times. Our peer support workers are often our most precious and cherished resource but their job is arguably the hardest of all. They expose themselves daily to their deepest demons and make themselves vulnerable in order to support and give hope to our patients in their darkest moments. To do this they need buckets of resilience and huge amounts of care from the rest of the team. I haven’t voted as I don’t know you or your story but I would say a good ten years of being well is needed for our psw’s to fulfil their role. I think it’s different to accessing therapy, lots of our team access therapy and it’s generally seen as a strength.

you have referred to the NHS but have applied/been offered other job roles?
It must depend on the treatment you are receiving? I would think intense psychotherapy for example would mean you need to concentrate on getting better. What if you didn’t get on with your colleagues or due to the stress of the job you suffered a set back? However I may be wrong.

My friend had intense psychotherapy following a marriage breakdown amongst other things and was told not to go back to work or start a new job unless treatment was complete! She has never been back to work since as she never recovered. Hope you get better OP

And @lisers you haven't had my experience of group therapy clearly (expected, but trust me some staff were absolutely not involved in the peer support that we were expected to give each other (and yes, I do realise this is not how group therapy should have been done but that's how it was and the clinic thankfully was shut down))

Have you clarified that this is what they mean? I’d have thought they didn’t intend to exclude and would apply anyway. Interesting question about the equality act I don’t know the answer but would like to

Can someone explain why you are saying they are not excluding anyone receiving treatment when they are literally using not receiving treatment as the definition for being in recovery?

@niccyb yes, I have my old job offered back to me however I’ve been advised that it wouldn’t be advisable to take it as it involves lots of travel and I cannot protect my therapy time this time around… which I fully understand.

@niccyb my fear at the moment is that I will never go back to work; feeling like my brain is starting to rot from lack of use! I hope your friend is doing better?

It is because you can't objectively support someone professionally when you are currently needing support for the same or similar issue. A lot of therapy-type roles and courses have this condition.

My first 2 thoughts about requirement OP objects to were

1. duty of care to the applicant. Should not employ someone who may be harmed by the job (that stupid word triggered). Would it be like expecting someone to run a race when their leg is still broken not healed.
2. role model. Someone who can offer hope to others, knows the path to recovery, by being in a much better place since they were in the worst place. The core unique function of this person is to know what recovery is like and to have a view what the whole journey may be like.

As much as you want to, you are not mentally well enough to help others suffering with their mental health when you are not fully recovered yourself.

But the requirement of most therapy courses is that you yourself are in therapy / analysis / supervision?

Thanks for all the replies by the way, I do really appreciate them.

But does recovered automatically mean not having any treatment? Is that a reasonable bar? Stability is important, progress is important definitely, as is insight but those things can be there whilst someone has treatment that maintains their progress.

I have suffered with my mental health and required treatment myself. I would not be happy with someone also suffering attempting to help me - this isn’t one friend to another just winging it.

You need to be fully recovered and in the right head space and recovery experience to help others recover.

I can guarantee that many people who have supported others with their mental health have their own mental health issues going on.

GPs, nurses, therapists, emergency services etc.

having been in similar positions I actually agree that it makes sense, that people working with and supporting other’s with mh should be in a stable and strong healthy position. Perhaps if professional’s are telling you you’re not currently well enough it would be helpful to listen as painful as it is right now, I speak from experience and also pushing to work in mh when my own mh was not good enough and ending up doing more damage to myself long term.

@NuttyinNotts according to most people in this thread it is a reasonable bar that recovery = not having treatment. Which is just not achievable for many people.

Oh no my treating professionals are up for it (outside the area that I’ve received treatment in for very good reason)

it’s the professionals im applying for! That’s the issue. Two of them are my referees.

Two of the people involved in my treatment are my referees that was meant to say!

i used to be a peer support worker and I was under a CMHT at that time. What does the job advert say as most psws are under a team or accessing therapy so this really suprises me?

i am also aware of mental health professionals like cpns, social workers, psychologists who are in treatment for their mental health etc

So you have a MH condition and you want a job supporting people with the same condition or have I misunderstood?
Wouldnt this put you under too much stress and possibly negatively impact on your recovery?
Surely better to look for a job in admin or something.