4 year old saying nasty things

[Longtimeposternc]

My DS is usually a very well behaved child. He has randomly started to tell his younger sibling, me and DH to “shut up”, “go away” and calling us “stupid” “idiot” etc. he fully understands these are naughty words and laughs because I get cross. I have absolutely no idea where he has learnt this stuff - it’s not the sort of thing we ever say at home and I assume it’s from a couple of summer clubs he has done. I’m feeling a bit down about it as he keeps doing it and I would really love some advice on how to handle please. He does say sorry afterwards but then he just does it again so 🤷🏻‍♀️🤷🏻‍♀️🤷🏻‍♀️ He’s my first as well so not sure if everyone just does this or it’s just him! Thanks all

Up to room, shut door, no attention. Comes out, says it again, back in he goes.

Without an audience, he won't say it. He'll also learn rapidly that saying it means he is no longer part of the group.

Because if he gets to school and starts saying it, some bigger kid will lamp him. So he might as well learn now.

I think that’s pretty unfair; I’m not “giving up”, I’ve come here to ask for advice. Im
just not sure I agree with the principle of time out etc so my heart isn’t in it, and I don’t feel comfortable physically forcing him to sit somewhere or in a room. That doesn’t feel right to me!

the cuddle approach is more the things I will try. If that doesn’t work then it will be staying home during a fun outing or having a toy/tv time taken or something.

he’s usually absolutely wonderful, polite and a good eater because of the amount of tike
and effort I’ve put into him but thank you for the negative reading of my parenting!

The fact that you have said he always laughs in your face when you get annoyed with him and that you couldn’t enforce a naughty step punishment shows who is running the show. IMO cancelling the park is too big a punishment and not immediate enough but he is crying out for some boundaries. When he says something next give a warning ‘we don’t say that if you say it again you will go the the thinking spot/naughty step/timeout chair’ then when he does it again you take him to the spot and make him spend 2 minutes there. If he gets up take him back silently. Keep doing it till 2 minutes has passed then say ‘you sat in timeout because you called mummy an idiot, don’t do that again’. It will be a nightmare day to keep enforcing it but he will quickly learn it’s pointless otherwise your going to be ruled by your toddler and very soon his brother. You need to grow a backbone. Once he knows you mean business a warning should be enough 9/10 times.

@Longtimeposternc

Yes please do feedback how cuddling a child who laughs in your face when you try and tell him off goes.

Your job as a parent is to teach actions have consequences, that's how children learn their boundaries and what is acceptable and what is not.

Your DH at least seems to have the right idea just neither of you actually follow through

Good luck in the years to come is all i have to say

This

If the cuddling doesn’t work, I will try something harsher. I just don’t want to start there - I don’t think parenting with shame etc should be used as a first approach! Im
not the only one to think so, maybe read the other comments on the thread

@Longtimeposternc

But your DH clearly does.

You're not even presenting a united front.

Children see this and can spot gaps to exploit, even at 4.

My first approach would be to ignore. Keep ignoring as if he hasn't even said it. Just don't react at all.
Ditto repetition by younger sibling.
All attention is attention, even if it's negative.
Praise good behaviour.
If you set a consequence, follow through.

DH is just doing what I’m telling him to do! He has even less of a clue than I do! My household growing up was filled with beatings and his was devoid of affection so we are doing our best, which is why I am
posting for ideas. I think DS is extremely sensitive and I prefer to try a gentle method if possible. If that doesn’t work I have somewhere to go/something else to try.

Ignoring also a good idea, thank you

My other tactic with low level cheekiness was to turn it around and make DD laugh.
So if she said 'you shut up' I would say back ' no, you shut up AND you smell like cabbage' which would turn it into a game. 'no, you smell like cabbage' AND etc..'
It might not work for everyone but for us it was a good way to defuse a moment and make it light hearted. It also gives the child what they want, which is your attention, but in the way you want it, which is without conflict.

DH just reminded me that about a year ago he heard DH say shit and kept repeating it despite knowing it was bad. We cancelled tv time every day he said it and he stopped very quickly.

however I have the feeling this is something different/there seems to be more of an emotional edge to this as a Pp said so I’m not sure it’s as cut and dry

I would say you dont want to put yourself in a position where dad does the talkings to, your children will then know they dont have to listen to you, but need to listen to dad. I know you are trying to change that and step away from your current model, but just wanted to pop that in.

If you want to try hugging him while he is being rude to you as your first attempt, there is no harm in that but im just wondering if thats to be used for everything moving forward??

I would be doing as you do and explaining to him that because he is being unkind, he needs to leave the room. And ensure he does, wether thats to his room or on a step. You dont get to play with people you are nasty too, simple as that. You don't have the right to make others sad then play with them, and you dont get to disrespect people and carry on regardless, the younger they learn the better and its your job to teach them that as best you can before school.

Dont threaten things you wont follow through with, it undermines you.

Be consistent with whatever consequence/reaction you choose, every single time,yes it can be tiring but its part of the job.

Also if your child is "sensitive" explain that so can other people, so why does he get to be cruel to them and upset them ?
Surely he knows how that would feel being so sensitive himself.

I agree with you.

I think it's possible to tell whether it's an expression of mismanaged emotion or showing off. Our job as parents is to teach our children to cope with their feelings. At 4 shutting someone in a room when they express emotion badly isn't going to teach them how to manage their feelings in a socially acceptable way. If anything it's the opposite. He is 4, not 14.

Hes FOUR. He can't plan for the future " If you're naughty today there will be a punishment on Saturday. "

the consequence has to be consistent immediate and short. 3 minutes.

I agree with this. Some things like hitting, biting, pushing and not listening when out and about need an immediate consequence and I go absolutely nuclear and scary mummy if my DC does those things.

Some things like "idiot" and "poo poo face" are best ignored because they're just being done for attention. If my DC uses unkind words like this, I just remind them that we don't speak to people like that because it's not kind and, if the behaviour continues, I ignore it and refuse to engage or play until DC has apologised. Pick your battles is sensible advice, but if you say you're going to do something, you need to make sure that you do it.

My 4 year old giggles when he's nervous of the response usually! I've gone through loads of things like this with my son... He's really made me research 😂. I've found restorative justice to be the best approach for him.

Sounds like he is trying to get a rise out of you. I would tell him that its not polite to tell people to shut up. Then give my attention to anyone with positive attention. Although, what do I know? My 2 year old is currently hair pulling, biting, scratching and pinching. My 3 year old never hurt people on purpose. Have you considered behaviour matters books? Check them out on Amazon

amzn.eu/d/4Wynk4i

I’d take the energy right out of it. He’s 4 and being a bit rude, it doesn’t mean he’s a terrible person or that you’re a terrible parent it just means he’s 4. I’d keep my response very low key, “you sound cross” and let him respond to that. Let him express what he’s feeling and from there you can start to help him find better words and actions to cope with big feelings.

Also, for some kids in this kind of situation, laughing and crying are much the same thing; an expression of a pent up feeling that they don’t know what to do with. It could just be that he’s finding the thrill of being rude funny or exciting in which case keeping your response boring and low key will soon zap the fun out of it for him.

Op it’s normal for this age as like other posters have said they are now getting outside peer influences and testing out at home.
Just say very firmly “ we don’t talk like that to each other in our family / use those words” and if you do it again you will have a consequence and tell him what it will be so he’s clear what will happen next. Tv privilege gone for a day usually works well. The reality is you will need to follow this through a few times for the deterrent but it’s important as as some point they are going to be saying thinks you really don’t want repeated!

however I have the feeling this is something different/there seems to be more of an emotional edge to this as a Pp said so I’m not sure it’s as cut and dry

He's behaving exactly like 99% of 4yr olds. They want to see what they can do, what point they can push to and what happens when they go over it. It's a normal part of testing people out and learning to process both feelings and information.

4 yr olds are highly emotional creatures, tears, shouting, tantrums, even swearing is pretty average behaviour. I've been working with under 8s for over 40yrs and it's pretty standard stuff despite what other parents will tell you.

In my experience ignoring is the best tool unless he's physically hurting someone. Carry on doing whatever it was you were doing and if you feel the need to respond do so in a quiet, calm voice. So if he says 'I hate you' just say 'that's a shame because I love you'. Remind him that it's not nice to tell people to shut up and then ignore.

It's just a phase like any other and the least attention he gets from it the better. I used to tell mine 'no [whatever] for an hour' and 30 mins added on for every time they said [whatever] after they had been told. But if you dish out a consequence, make it realistic, short and instant.

Say nothing and leave the room. Every time. Putting him on the naughty step etc. gives attention.

Thank you very much!!!

he did not get his television time today. He has therefore now been a model child the remainder of the afternoon and has since eaten his dinner up and now going for bath with DH.

i think there is some excellent advice on this thread and it’s very helpful to hear others have been through the same as I haven’t spent much time with other children due to no friends or family having them and him being my first so great to get some feedback. I will go for the fairly boring “we don’t say that in the house as it’s not nice. If it happens again it’s no tv today”. Rinse and repeat.

no tv also a pretty devastating punishment with little knock on for me so it’s a good one to implement