to be confused about social services

[whentheraincame]

Bit of a long one but it's something I have thought about a long time. There's two narratives:

SS don't do enough; don't act to remove children in obvious danger (happens sometimes of course)

SS are overzealous; remove children from loving homes (going to happen at times, right?)

there was a show over ten years ago called I Want my Baby Back and it was absolutely heartbreaking and admittedly it terrified me. Basically hairline fractures were found in children and parents were blamed for abuse. The argument was (I forget details and could never watch again) from some doctors that these were the result of Vitamin D deficiency (which let's face it, was endemic a while back and in the news loads)

So the argument was those children were wrongly removed. One mother cried "I want my baby" and honestly it's never left me. I'll have a cry about this later as I always do if I think too much about a child being removed from a loving mum.

So my question is if anyone has proper insight. I'm scared of SS in general. Although I actually had involvement with them myself when I left an abusive ex and they came to check I was not going to go back, nothing further happened once they met me - so proof they are fine I guess.

But I remember seeing a lady on the news, well spoken, and saying SS need to return her children who were removed. I had a friend tell me in work once that a friend with undiagnosed autism got the children removed due an incident where one got hurt by the other (which happens. these things happen, children do get hurt and it's often an accident that couldn't be prevented)

I guess I just don't want to see SS as evil child snatchers, and want insight into how they operate in reality and what actually gets children removed from parents' care?

If they even get an apology at all.....

Yes big lol at the thought of SWs apologising. More chance or Lord Lucan turning up on Shergar

That’s such a load of bollox. They have the power to upend peoples’ lives, and when you make statements like that it shows you don’t take the responsibility of upending peoples lives seriously.

When police officers fabricate or massage evidence to get a conviction they can be criminally prosecuted for that.

that drivel about “on the whole” makes you sound like a drunk driver saying to a bereaved family well I haven’t maimed or killed anyone on the other days, on the whole I’m a good driver”. Why shouldn’t social workers be held responsible for what they write in the same way as other professionals.

Icanstillrecallourlastsummer
i imagine most of us would not take our children to hospital unless it was really necessary. If it was necessary and you did not take them your care would certainly need looking at.
If one child is taken into care that shouldn’t be that is one too many but when ss get involved the whole team around the child kicks in. This involves lots of people so if only one person flags up a problem the others should all question the reasoning behind it.
To be fair if your friend is working for the parent they only hear their side of the story.
I like to see the good in people and believe what they tell me but I’ve met lots of parents who I thought I’ve built up good relationships with only to be let down by them letting their children down. It’s so sad.

Yes he works for the parent. He also goes through a court process where - in his experience - quite often it is proved that there were not sufficient grounds or evidence to remove the child. Which is why he gave the rather extreme advice he did.
I am not saying this happens in very case, far from it. But my impression was it happens far more than we think. It's not just a one off rouge SW. But the children are returned, so "no damage done" right?

To add, I also think it's quite telling of a certain attitude that your immediate conclusion is that a(very experienced, highly reputable and ver intelligent) family barrister (despite having access to all the evidence) must just be having the wool pulled over his eyes by the evil and neglectful parents, and only SS can really see through all the lies for the benefit of the children.

But my impression was it happens far more than we think. It's not just a one off rouge SW. But the children are returned, so "no damage done" right?

If a child is removed following a hospital visit, it’ll be because the medical staff have identified something they believe to be a non-accidental injury. If a medic tells you that in their professional opinion the injury appears non-accidental what options do you think are open to social work other than seeking removal of the child pending further investigation?

So you think that a call for accountability is not necessary in a situation where a child in removed for its parents?

I'm not saying it (the removal) shouldn't happen at all. I am saying SWs should be accountable for the decisions they make in such situations. Which, it appears, is not always the case.

What form do you think that accountability should take. Social workers are already accountable to their employers, their registering body, they’re accountable in law, and in the media.

And you didn’t answer the question, what options do you think are option to social work other than the removal of a child where non-accidental injury has been identified by a medic.

They aren't accountable really though let's be honest here.

The first social worker we had was the one who was on panel for a couple to adopt who had clearly been abusing the little girl. She didn't report any of the abuse and put the adoption forward anyway. The girl was murdered. Social worker had no repercussions.

Second one we had was taken to court for fraud for saying he was working 28 hours a day. Yes that's right. Even on Christmas Day.

He was charged with fraud, but still.. no repercussions for his highly highly dishonest ways which could easily spill into his work if part of his personality.

I have both their names and it's all over the internet if you don't believe me.

In reply to the second part of this, more avenues should be explored. The police do it? They look at all possibilities whereas social workers mainly just blame the parents.

A non accidental injury is what it is. Non accidental, but that does not always mean abuse.
We had a non accidental injury in our case, I was the one who bought it to the attention of the health professionals by the way.

Our other child was never considered to potentially have done something by accident and never asked. We were straight away made out to be child abusers. Luckily we were "allowed" to keep our children ha. But how can I ever trust anyone again?

Icanstillrecallourlastsummer
i think highly educated family barristers can have the wool pulled over their eyes just as highly educated social workers can.
I also think that highly educated people should not be advising people not to take their children to hospital just incase social services swoop in and snatch their child from them.
i also didn’t say any parents were evil, unfortunately some parents no matter how hard they try, cannot provide good enough care for a child. This is often not their fault, they too are a product of their upbringing.
I have also previously said that if a Sw is neglectful in any way they should be dealt with in an appropriate way, if necessary legally.
My attitude is from my experience and that of many of my friends who are also foster carers.
some of the children brought into our care are past the point of no return.
I also have family who work with young adults who after leaving the care system have reconnected with their families, often this is not a good experience for them.
Heartbreaking.

@Sunnyqueen I don’t know where your info is from but foster carers don’t receive anywhere near £800 a week per child! I receive less than half of that for 2 children.

I agree they’re not accountable. Not consistent either. When you change social workers often what was planned with the last one goes out the window. I know most of you are speaking from the position of parents but there are many many of us out there who feel failed by ss as kids.

After an experience where I gratefully accepted their offer of support with one very disturbed teenager, would NEVER trust them again. Several changes of caseworker, loads of factual inaccuracies in the report which I got no response to when challenged, I was made to feel an utter failure despite the child's father who I had left due to longstanding DV lying through his teeth and coming out smelling of roses. 😡

A listening service would be a good start, like the NHS has. A safe space where disgruntled parents can go with the promise of no repercussions and the promise of listening and, where required, action. Even if it’s correcting errors that are small but matter. I also think SWs should have a revalidation programme like nurses do whereby upheld and non-upheld complaints are recorded as part of the process

Such a good point! I don't have experience of it but to be honest the children who have social services involved are at the very heart of this. They will feel any decisions made the most. It needs to be spoken about more

@when2become3 can you point me to the SCR of the girl killed by adopters? I usually keep up with these things because of my job role but that one passed me by.

A social worker charged with fraud would loose their registration - it’s a long process and workers are usually moved to administrative roles or suspended pending investigation by their registering body.

In general, it can be worth looking at the professional conduct proceedings for registering bodies for social work - in Scotland the SSSC, proceedings outcomes are public and detail sanctions against workers for misconduct and malpractice. I think you’d be surprised at some of the things we can be sanctioned for.

There’s also the option for people who feel they are the subject of malpractice to raise a concern with the registering body.

Madwife123
£800, me neither!
Sunnyqueen
you are right, foster care does cost an awful lot of money, when a child is taken into care it’s not only the foster carers who need to be paid, it’s social workers, IROs, school nurses, guardians, even schools get extra money for the child.
This money all comes from our taxes, it’s cheaper to leave a child at home, Ss don’t have an infinite budget.
Im sorry that you were treated so badly in care, this should never of happened. I’m not sure how long ago this was but all of the children I have are involved in LAC reviews where they can sit with all of the people involved in their care, parents are also invited, any problems can be discussed there and hopefully rectified.

A non accidental injury is what it is. Non accidental, but that does not always mean abuse.

Of course it doesn’t, but those enquiries take time to complete, even if that’s a further conversation with the consultant paediatrician, a conversation with the family and, for example, a discuss with a nursery or school. What would you do with the child in the meantime?

@Jellycatspyjamas there are times when a child does clearly need to be removed from their birth parents.

However, in answer to what should happen in he meantime - the child should have as much contact with their parents as possible until things can be sorted, one way or another. Not removed for adoption.

I think many of us want SWs to bear in mind that whilst these processes take time, removing a child then later finding out there’s no abuse, is far more damaging than if other measures had been taken. Such as supervision by a close family member. It’s SO damaging just to remove a child from a household. My kids would be absolutely beside themselves they’d never recover

But there’s a huge element of back-covering which is all well and good for the SW but damaging AF for the child

Just like @Neverfullycharged said. Let the child have supervised contact with the parents as much as possible.

We weren't even allowed phone calls. That's how I knew our social worker was taking things to a whole new level. Our 4 year old was absolutely distraught and we were even offered therapy if he needed it.

School couldn't sing our praises enough.
All they had was a small bruise and no historical abuse. But you'd think we murdered someone. I told them I would drive the kids to the hospital every single day if it meant I could see them. They don't care.

Neverfullycharged
unless serious abuse is suspected the parent and child do have lots of contact.
When they first come into care it’s sometimes daily.
Adoption is a last resort. Family members are sought if the child cannot go home.
There are lots of avenues that need to be explored before a child is adopted.