To not send DD on Brownie camp?

[BrownieCampYesorNo]

This is not about them money I won’t be asking for a refund and will still pay the rest of the money if she doesn’t go. But I have to decide this week if she goes so that the space can be offered up if she doesn’t.

DD is 8, it’s her first ever camp in October half term and is for 3 days/2 nights. Here the Rainbows don’t do them and the one she should have had in October last year was cancelled due to covid and nothing else arranged since. It’s not just DDs Brownies going another Brownies unit and the Guides are going so if she doesn’t go the space will be offered up and most likely filled (there’s 20-30 girls in each unit but only 50 places on camp).

DD has some SN and has always regressed at times. She has dyslexia and severe joint hypermobility syndrome, she’s also suspected dyspraxic. She has processing and memory issues, she can forget something two seconds after you say it, she can follow instructions but they need to be broken down a lot.

I’m not worried about her behaviour bar there being a 90% chance she’ll lose at least 1 item of clothing, she’s pretty well behaved. School have said they have no concerns about her around fire and she's always been fine with not touching a hot oven when at home so she's not likely to be a danger.

But she’s suddenly unable to do even the basics. As I said regression is normal during the big long summer but it’s almost like she’s regressed 4 years and is just about to start school, not just about to start Year 4.

She’s now unable to put on trousers; she gets both legs in one hole, she won’t allow me to help her gets upset and cries. She’s struggling with none laced shoes – as in she can’t even do up the tape or get them to stay on her feet. She can’t do buttons and never has been able to, she wanted a zip up hoodie on yesterday and couldn’t do the zip. She keeps losing things including her glasses which are kept in the same place usually but she keeps putting them down and forgetting where they are. She’s also falling over a lot more again when I thought we’d dealt with these issues.

I am of course going to try and contact the various people who’re involved with her care including the GP but the chances of being able to get any actual treatment before the camp is slim.

There is likely to be another camp around Easter but I won’t know for sure until around Christmas when they announce the calendar for 2023.

So AIBU to not send her? I feel guilty as she’s really excited about it but I don't know if I can consciously send her when she might make more work for the leaders.

Very tricky. What really jumps out at me is that she was doing better when ar school and has regressed now that she’s home more. That says to me that Brownie camp would be really really good for her.

I would send her if you trust the other children and adults to help her if she gets frustrated/ upset. When my DS started school he couldn’t open his lunchbox or dress himself but the other children just helped him.

Speak to the leaders..
They'll let you know whether it will be an issue, hopefully not.

But also hopefully by October she may have improved somewhat?

Speak to the leaders.
Please don't decide now.

One of my children has SEN and they have gone to camps. There has been a few little incidents but all well
A couple of times I've gone as a helper, avoided my own child so they can independence, but there in case I am needed (meltdowns).

Also had children who have medical issues e.g. feeding tube and the leaders trained themselves up to ensure the child could join in and be safe.

The leaders cope with loads of issues (the child who has nightmares, the bedwetting, the one on medication, the homesick one the one who only eats food that is white etc... and as long the leaders know - they are amazing at managing.

My Dd is the same she is working now and really didn't cope well over lockdowns,but when she was younger school holidays were also an issue.

As pp have said, speak to the leaders and get an adjustment plan written. Where DD needs help, then the volunteers attending and the other girls will help her. If they need an extra helper or to get to know a bit more about how to help DD then there is time to sort it out.

Think your way through a day and note what DD struggles with and how might you and the leaders can help her? DD may have suggestions as well.

e.g.
Organising her clothes - pack a complete outfit for each day in a separate carrier bag, labelled with the day of the week, plus a bag for each day's worn clothes. Pyjamas, washing things and teddy on the top as she'll need them first.

Putting her clothes on correctly - sew a ribbon in the back neck and waistband, half a sticker in each shoe so she matches them up to put the shoes on the right feet

Getting into a sleeping bag - if sleeping indoors, send a duvet instead
Getting washed - shower that morning before she goes

Looking after her glasses - she gives them to a named adult (probably first aider) to look after overnight

Pouring drinks - smaller jug or get a friend to pour hers
Eating - are any items on the menu going to be difficult? Eg if it's spaghetti bolognaise, could they serve pasta shells to everyone instead?

Does she need to be in the bedroom nearest the toilets, to sleep in a lower bunk, or to sit on a chair to do tasks like drying up...

Thank you thats really helpful

They're on camp beds, so a duvet will be easier and ok to send I think anyway.

Foodwise she's mostly fine but she will need help cutting things up, and won't ask, so I'll mention that.

This is such a brilliant list. My DS is autistic and dyspraxic and lots of these ideas would work for him if he ever goes to a Scouts camp. There's one in Sep, but Scouts have said I'd have to go as a volunteer, and sadly I can't be away from my other child (also autistic).

You could also do her a laminated tick sheet for tasks getting up / going to bed, which she ticks off with a whiteboard marker?

In my experience, leaders will help where necessary as long as you explain everything in advance.

Rainbow and Brownie leader here - as other leaders have said above, absolutely do consider sending. We would deal with this as a matter of course. BUT, if you are very concerned, the other thing you could do is offer to come along as a parent helper. If it's nearby, you wouldn't need to spend the night and you could provide 1:1 support where required. I had a mum of a brownie with quite a severe SN do this and it really helped the girl feel at ease. After the first one, we tend to find the parents are not needed as often in future years anyway, especially ones the girls know what to expect etc. and feel more confident / secure.

Send her. She'll have had a term back at school by then and I bet you'll be shocked what you can do there compared to at home also. This will probably be really good for her but make the leaders aware. An experienced leader will have seen this all before - she won't be the first m

Have emailed Brown Owl and she's setting up a video call with me later in the week to discuss it all, the email sounded like she really wants DD to go so I'll update when I've had that.

Thank you all some really helpful tips on this thread I will definitely be making use of.

If she wants to go,.let her go!

My 10 year old can barely do his laces still now!!! So I wouldn't worry too much about that! Can you get her some velcro shoes for camp?

My 8 yr old struggles with buttons too, I'm sure someone will help her.

Camps are great for building independence, confidence and skills. She may come.back.more capable than when she went!

(My 10yr old sounds like your daughter, though no diagnoses. He always loses things/forgets things etc... He's just come back from a weeks sports camp and remembered everything!!! I nearly collapsed with shock!)

@OhGoodnessItsSoExhausting She's struggling even with velcro shoes, can't do the tape up and the shoes won't stay on her feet, they're the right size as podiatry measured her feet not two weeks ago, but they just will not stay on because she's not doing the velcro up, when I do the velcro the shoes stay on.

As a brownie leader, I’d have been happy to meet up with you to discuss your concerns. If your Dd is excited and looking forward to it, then please speak to the leaders first.

Scout leader here. Although I've been to beaver, cub and scout camps. Please don't worry explain her needs and leave the rest to the leaders! We cater for all kinds of needs and do so in our stride! You would be surprised how many children without special needs can't follow instructions even carefully explained and written on the board. Totally used to this and with info that some extra support was required it would delivered with no fuss or drawing attention to anyone. Please send her she will have a wonderful time 😊

(nb I have a dd who had quite a few issue too - severe dyspraxia add and autism and very small & immature for age and eczema -food allergies - we talked it over with the brownie leaders and they coped - you could just let her stay for one full day and night and see how it goes)
so main stream ds came back from cubs - it was hilarious a major decontamination time - he had 2 pairs of socks on, he put the "clean" ones over the dirty ones - we more or less shoved him into the shower and put everything in the wash - point I am trying to make is that they concentrate on safety and just enjoying themselves doing things. You might find this stretches her and brings her to develop a little less dependence on you and become a bit more independent
they took really good care of dd - but you really need to talk to them as early as possible - as I said maybe think part time rather than stopping her going

If she regresses that much that she can’t dress herself, it’s highly likely she will regress even more when you are not there. The stress and unfamiliarity will probably trigger her even more. I think she is too high needs to be able to be supported at a brownie camp imo.

It's such a worry isn't it? My son has dyspraxia and although he can do his clothes up etc I aways worry about him being away without us as he struggles cutting up his food, would forget to brush his teeth etc and can't open packets eg crisps so I worry about him going hungry as he doesn't ask. He also will not drink anything other than water (which is fine as long as he is given it), on school trips they are often given juice and one trip he didn't say anything all day. It was a hot day and he literally hadn't had a single thing to drink all day, he was crying when I picked him up as he was so thirsty.

However, I would speak to the leader and I bet it can be sorted. I think I would encourage her to go as I bet it will do her the world of good!

I'd be very wary unless there is an adult willing and able to take 1:1 responsibility all of the time. I've kept my ds (ASD) off trips in the past when I didn't think he'd be properly looked after.

Brownie Leader here. Send her. You'll be amazed when the Leaders tell you what she's been doing while you're not around- happens all the time.
Talk to the Leaders though, and explain her needs and abilities, and they'll take good care of her.
The whole point of camps is for the girls to learn independence.

October is a long way off at her age, reassess the situation in 4 weeks time. She might surprise you. Meanwhile a piece of advice I was given (my dd is autistic and has dyspraxia) was to teach her the skill then refuse to help no matter how long it takes other wise she will learn she doesn't need to try. It worked

@BrownieCampYesorNo Re the shoes, try normal laced trainers etc but remove the laces and replace with elastic laces. Do them up once then leave them like that then slide feet in so no fastening of velcro or laces. Laces often sold as independent living aids e.g for use if had a stroke and only have one arm. Try labeling clothing with left and right (or sometimes people use 2 halves of a face for example in the inside of shoes) even in the waist band of trousers. Try and get access to an Occupational Therapist if she doesn't already

What about slip on vans/vans type shoes? Or even crocs or similar. My son wore wellies from age 4-6, it was hard work. I felt like I had to keep saying ‘that’s all he can wear’ when he was in a pair of wellies with his shorts and t-shirt in the boiling heat.

It sounds like a tough situation but there would be some absolutely amazing memories to be had from this I’m sure.