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AIBU?

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Original poster

UC sanctions should be temporarily lifted

275 replies

Needachangee · 13/08/2022 13:37

NC as been discussing with a friend who uses MN

I am on UC currently but have been sanctioned for missing appointments as my mum was in hospital. I had a single piece of toast yesterday, I just started my period, it’s 30 degrees and I have 3 potatoes and half a tin of beans to last until Monday. That’s when I can apply for a hardship payment that I might not even receive and if I do it won’t come through till Tuesday.

AIBU to think sanctions should be lifted temporarily with the cost of living crisis. I understand that there has to be consequences and incentives to make people attend the job centre but the alternative is people like myself are close to starving. The only positive outlook I have is I’m starting work in September. Food banks are scarce as everyone is struggling to buy their own shops let alone donate.

The country is on its knees so I know there can’t be an increase in UC and as I say I will be earning myself soon enough but as I’ve been sanctioned the most I will get is £100 if I’m accepted for a hardship payment to see me through till payday in September. I think sanctions should be banned temporarily as a help to people like the increase during lockdown.

OP posts:
munchiemarie · 13/08/2022 16:09

BMW6 · 13/08/2022 15:43

OP Sikh temples give free meals to anyone who is hungry. Look up your nearest Gudwara to see what days they offer meals.

That's amazing, I didn't know that.

girlfriend44 · 13/08/2022 16:10

Athenajm80 · 13/08/2022 15:56

You cannot be "sanctioned on a whim" or for being 5 minutes late to an appointment. If you don't turn up at all and don't communicate, or if you're consistently late with no good reason, the work coach writes it all down and sends it to a decision maker. The decision maker then considers the instructions which are written into UC legislation and applies the decision. If the work coach is being vindictive or unfair, it is extremely unlikely that the decision maker will sanction. The only targets to do with sanctions when I worked at the job centre was actually for the DMs and they were targeted on cancellations so would often cancel referrals we'd made.

The claimant has the right to appeal and in my experience, the minute mental health is mentioned, whether that is supported with a med cert or not, the decision gets overturned. I worked in a pretty rough area and claimants (mainly young guys often with criminal records) would chat to me and talk about how they knew what to say if they got sanctioned. Luckily for most of my time, I wasn't a work coach so had a different relationship with the customers and could talk to them on a different footing. It was quite sad the amount of effort they'd put into "gaming" the system. I'm sure if some of them put that effort into finding work, they could have a really good career. They were just trapped by the attitude of their friends/family/community.

Show quote history

you defintely can, educate yourself on this.

An advisor can say you havent applied for enough jobs this week you are sanctioned.

The onus is then on you to prove you have. In the meantime all your money has been stopped. You now have to beg, borrow or steal for money.
On appeal its decided you did apply for enough jobs, so the advisor was wrong but they get away with it.

Thats what is meant by on a whim.

Sanctions are using starvation as a punishment.

AndreaC74 · 13/08/2022 16:10

Workyticket · 13/08/2022 15:58

@AndreaC74 by that logic claimants are on £77 for an hour's time attending an appointment then.

I meant that it should be prioritised - like a job is when arranging stuff / visiting people in hospital. If it pays the bills it needs to be priority whether it's work or benefits

There is no point sanctioning people who have nothing, all your doing is driving them deeper in to destitution/debt and in some cases crime, making even less likely they will get a job.

Sanctions just don't work.

AyeUpMeDuck · 13/08/2022 16:11

I'm on UC.
I'm aware that Coaches vary in attitude from one to another.

Did you inform them on your journal of what was happening? Or did you just not go to your appointment without word or warning?

Even the worst Coaches I've had would likely understand a postponement request whilst you sorted your mum etc. They will also call at the time of the appointment to find out of you're coming. Did you ignore their calls?

If I've ever had to miss an appointment I've messaged them through the journal as soon as I knew I'd be missing it or late. Asking for a rearrangement or a phone call to explain etc.

TheFormidableMrsC · 13/08/2022 16:11

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I've reported this. What a horrible comment.

Azerothi · 13/08/2022 16:11

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This. Absolutely.

DashboardConfessional · 13/08/2022 16:13

I would be able to say whether YABU if you said how many appointments you missed. Two - harsh. Five or six without a word? Well, obviously there are consequences.

girlfriend44 · 13/08/2022 16:13

AlmostAJillSandwich · 13/08/2022 16:02

My partner has severe mh issues and cannot get in cars etc, and recently got sanctioned his entire award as hes in the wrong group so has to go to 3 monthly reviews. He had to be forced in a state of complete panic, being ill, etc, to attend in a horrifying state or he'd end up homeless. For 3 missed appointments they agreed his reason for not attending was a good enough reason, then suddenly nope, extreme mental distress at travelling and being away from home wasn't acceptable. He's been promised his next app over the phone, which he repeatedly pleaded for for the first 3 missed apps, but got told uc is a face to face service only. Is it bollocks, they can do it when it suits then like pandemic and the 2 heatwave days!

yes exactly and they can be as late as they want to seeing people. The whole system is designed to put as much pressure on you as possible.

They used to do daily signing on, dont know if they still do?

A person had to attend the jobcentre every day and show their evidence of what they had done to look for work.
The only reason that was in place was to put pressure on people. All they want is for people to stop claiming in any way they can.

ImWell · 13/08/2022 16:13

girlfriend44 · 13/08/2022 16:10

you defintely can, educate yourself on this.

An advisor can say you havent applied for enough jobs this week you are sanctioned.

The onus is then on you to prove you have. In the meantime all your money has been stopped. You now have to beg, borrow or steal for money.
On appeal its decided you did apply for enough jobs, so the advisor was wrong but they get away with it.

Thats what is meant by on a whim.

Sanctions are using starvation as a punishment.

Show quote history

In that case it sounds like it would make sense to apply for the number of jobs that you had agreed to.

Ithinkthatisenoughnowthanks · 13/08/2022 16:14

An awful lot of people would not be entitled to a penny if they were to become unemployed

If that were the case, they would have £16k or.more in the bank. Perhaps use your savings before expecting handouts?!

girlfriend44 · 13/08/2022 16:15

TheFormidableMrsC · 13/08/2022 16:11

I've reported this. What a horrible comment.

Show quote history

how can you budget properly when youve been given a pittance to live on in the first place?

With the rising cost of energy bills how are people meant to budget anyway?

ImWell · 13/08/2022 16:15

Ithinkthatisenoughnowthanks · 13/08/2022 16:14

An awful lot of people would not be entitled to a penny if they were to become unemployed

If that were the case, they would have £16k or.more in the bank. Perhaps use your savings before expecting handouts?!

What point do you think you are making there? Who suggested they were expecting handouts. I was correcting someone’s rather ignorant suggestion that any of us could end up on UC.

AyeUpMeDuck · 13/08/2022 16:15

The onus is then on you to prove you have. In the meantime all your money has been stopped. You now have to beg, borrow or steal for money.

Of theyve stopped all your money, they've done something wrong as it's limited to set amounts.
£11 a day for 25years and over. £8.50 for under 25s and it can't exceed standard allowance. Rules, I believe, are similar for couples.

girlfriend44 · 13/08/2022 16:15

ImWell · 13/08/2022 16:13

In that case it sounds like it would make sense to apply for the number of jobs that you had agreed to.

Show quote history

how do you know there was an agreement?

daisyjgrey · 13/08/2022 16:15

'Sanctions' are just fines. And the only people who suffer from receiving fines are people with nothing in the first place. They don't work.

Some of the replies on here are shocking. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

daisyjgrey · 13/08/2022 16:17

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And from a nurse! Gross.

PinkButtercups · 13/08/2022 16:18

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Thought the same!

Beach11 · 13/08/2022 16:19

If you missed work without telling your employer you would loose a days pay or be sacked, simple!

dottypotter · 13/08/2022 16:19

Those thinking sanctions are ok and taking away people money for food should watch I Daniel Blake then come back and comment.

I can commit an awful crime and go to prison. I will get 3 meals a day yet i can not attend a jc appointment or be late, or not just through enough hoops for the DWP and i will be starved great eh. People have died through sanctions wake up.

AyeUpMeDuck · 13/08/2022 16:19

girlfriend44 · 13/08/2022 16:15

how do you know there was an agreement?

Show quote history

All UC claimants sign a contract of sorts that says they will complete their commitments.

These.vommotments are usually that they'll spend 35 hours a week looking for, applying for or preparing for work.

They will ask friends and relatives about jobs.

They will attend CV writing course

Etc etc .

They can get sanctioned if they consistently fail.to.meet those commitments.

Boybandfacedfannyfart · 13/08/2022 16:20

OP - please contact a church. I’m not religious but I have 2 female friend vicars and I know they would hand over a bag of food. And, if you’re really desperate call the on duty social worker because you’re a vulnerable adult.

I know it depends where in the country you are, but my local food bank would send someone to open up and give food no matter which day of the week and with - or without a referral.

Boybandfacedfannyfart · 13/08/2022 16:21

OP - please contact a church. I’m not religious but I have 2 female friend vicars and I know they would hand over a bag of food. And, if you’re really desperate call the on duty social worker because you’re a vulnerable adult.

I know it depends where in the country you are, but my local food bank would send someone to open up and give food no matter which day of the week and with - or without a referral.

girlfriend44 · 13/08/2022 16:21

ImWell · 13/08/2022 16:13

In that case it sounds like it would make sense to apply for the number of jobs that you had agreed to.

Show quote history

If the advisor sanctioned it, then it was overturned on appeal it was obvious the sanction was wrong in the first place.

The advisor should then be fined a days wages for putting someone else through unecessary misery.

Friars23 · 13/08/2022 16:22

OP, I am very sorry and I agree with you. They are punitive and don’t even achieve what they were supposed to do.

“The Welfare Reform Act 2012, introduced by the coalition government, increased the number and severity of benefit sanctions for JSA and certain disability claimants up to three years. The justification was to promote positive behavioural change and incentivise job searching.

Research from the “ Welfare Conditionality Project led by the University of York broadly found that welfare conditionality is ineffective in assisting and progressing the unemployed into the paid labour market, and that it can lead to counterproductive negative behaviour – disconnection from the social security system, increased poverty, worse ill health and increased risk of survival crime.”

Furthermore, regarding sanctions for those with mental health issues the British Psychological Society, along with eight other leading mental health organisations, signed in 2019 a consensus statement that ‘everyone living with a mental health condition should be supported to attain financial security’, and that ‘Neither conditions nor sanctions have been shown to work or to be safe for people with mental health difficulties, and as a result we believe they should be stopped’.

WTF475878237NC · 13/08/2022 16:22

I'm really sorry you're in this situation OP. I just want to pick up the bit about your mental health difficulties and say I don't believe in the diagnosis of personality disorder. I see that as a way to label people who were not adequately protected, nurtured or cared for in childhood, or a young person who was somehow traumatised, and blame them for developing completely natural coping strategies as if there was something fundamentally wrong with them.

Anyone could have been born into an adverse situation or experience childhood trauma and end up struggling with everyday life. I do hope you can access something like clinical psychology/DBT for help soon.

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