UC sanctions should be temporarily lifted

[Needachangee]

NC as been discussing with a friend who uses MN

I am on UC currently but have been sanctioned for missing appointments as my mum was in hospital. I had a single piece of toast yesterday, I just started my period, it’s 30 degrees and I have 3 potatoes and half a tin of beans to last until Monday. That’s when I can apply for a hardship payment that I might not even receive and if I do it won’t come through till Tuesday.

AIBU to think sanctions should be lifted temporarily with the cost of living crisis. I understand that there has to be consequences and incentives to make people attend the job centre but the alternative is people like myself are close to starving. The only positive outlook I have is I’m starting work in September. Food banks are scarce as everyone is struggling to buy their own shops let alone donate.

The country is on its knees so I know there can’t be an increase in UC and as I say I will be earning myself soon enough but as I’ve been sanctioned the most I will get is £100 if I’m accepted for a hardship payment to see me through till payday in September. I think sanctions should be banned temporarily as a help to people like the increase during lockdown.

It sounds like the root of the problem is the dire lack of MH support people get in this country.

My initial thought was that sanctions are appropriate when they are fairly applied because most employed people would also face a sanction of some sort of they failed to meet their responsibility. But clearly that just doesn’t work when people don’t get the healthcare they need. So many people wouldn’t need UC in the first place if their mental health needs were being properly treated.

So many sanctimonious comments on here. People aren't on UC for the fun of it, and the appointments are often at ludicrous times which don't fit in with childcare or bus timetables and the like. I remember when I claimed JSA I had appointments at something like 14.57. I made a comment about it being school pick up time and they looked at me blankly. If I had a job I'd have childcare, but people can't afford childcare while claiming JSA as it then was! Fortunately I was only on JSA for a month so I kept my childcare.

It should be able to be done online in any event.

Yes I know they want to make sure people are not swinging the lead, but really.

It's all ridiculous and the people who operate these policies have no common sense, no compassion and no idea of there but for the grace of god. Like most on this thread.

Do you know what I would do if I would lose my income for turning up five minutes late? I’d not turn up five minutes late.

You are coming across as exactly the sort of person that sanctions are designed for; truculent, resentful, unwilling to fulfil your side of the deal and unable to take any responsibility.

You're getting money for nothing then.

so if you want to keep getting it you turn up to any meetings/phone calls.

I don't think they should be lifted, no. Most at the JC are very understanding and sympathetic to these situations, I know from experience. They should only sanction if you haven't informed them in advance or accepted their calls. I do feel for you though and your situation with your mum. Could a food bank help? I would probably call citizens advice myself or email them and see if they can point you in the direction of a charity that can help you with food over the next few days.

Ah you know what OP so many people have no clue how UC works and how many mistakes are made. Can you apply for an advance? Does your LA have any household support fund or crisis payments?

If DWP know you have poor MH they should be looking at their vulnerable client policy. They should only apply a sanction if it is repeatedly missed appointments and if it is they should establish why. But not all work coaches or case managers do this.

I know of claimants being sanctioned when a work coach has cancelled or rearranged their appointment but not updated the system

claimants UC claim being totally closed down while on holiday for two weeks because the work coach wrote gone abroad.

claimants being sanctioned because they didn’t answer their phone in 5 rings with no message with a number to call back

And some claimants even get forgotten about and never have to go to an appointment for months or years.

reconsiderations and appeals can take months if not years.

DWP and the Government know that Sanctions don’t work, but the poor must be punished.

@Happyhippy99 if you missed a meeting at work becaus your mum was in hospital and you were stressed you’d be happy to be docked month’s pay would you?

jesus wept.

the rules for sanctions for UC such as this would be illegal in a work context.

and people on uc are likely to be vulnerable

op I have nothing helpful to propose as I lack the knowledge- but have you tried foodbanks? Local churches?

it will get better in September when you start work

Don't be ridiculous.

If it were a job, the claimant would be on £9.50 hr, pension, paid hols etc.

Benefits in this country are shockingly low, a single adult will get around £77 per week.

What exactly is the point in sanctioning someone who has, be definition, got nothing? what are they supposed to live on?

Persistent offenders should just have their claims closed and we'd save a fortune if appointments were done over the phone, they are pointless, you just get asked a few questions and sent on your way.

You cannot be "sanctioned on a whim" or for being 5 minutes late to an appointment. If you don't turn up at all and don't communicate, or if you're consistently late with no good reason, the work coach writes it all down and sends it to a decision maker. The decision maker then considers the instructions which are written into UC legislation and applies the decision. If the work coach is being vindictive or unfair, it is extremely unlikely that the decision maker will sanction. The only targets to do with sanctions when I worked at the job centre was actually for the DMs and they were targeted on cancellations so would often cancel referrals we'd made.

The claimant has the right to appeal and in my experience, the minute mental health is mentioned, whether that is supported with a med cert or not, the decision gets overturned. I worked in a pretty rough area and claimants (mainly young guys often with criminal records) would chat to me and talk about how they knew what to say if they got sanctioned. Luckily for most of my time, I wasn't a work coach so had a different relationship with the customers and could talk to them on a different footing. It was quite sad the amount of effort they'd put into "gaming" the system. I'm sure if some of them put that effort into finding work, they could have a really good career. They were just trapped by the attitude of their friends/family/community.

You’ve obviously not budgeted properly and that’s why you have little food. What have you honestly been spending your benefits on?

Obviously not budgeted properly? How would you, a stranger with very limited In formation on the Internet, possibly know what the OP has or hasn't done?

She's on a tight, limited income. She has clearly had unexpected expense - getting to the hospital at least once - in recent weeks.

She is.under no obligation to tell you what she's spent her money on. You can sod right off with that kind of attitude. No one has to give the finer detail of their budgeting to a stranger on the Internet so they can be judged. OP asked AIBU. How about you actually answer that?

@Christmasiscominghohoho There but for the grace of god. Anyone can find themselves on UC if a few things don’t go right. Lucky for you thst this hasn’t happened to you

I fully sympathise with your situation, but no, I don’t think sanctions should be lifted.
like many other posters have said, we would be ‘sanctioned’ if we just didn’t turn up for work even if a relative was in hospital.
Youre claiming a free income off the state, and all you have to do to get it is attend relatively short appts, or call them to rearrange if something important clashes.
It’s already too easy for folk not to work. We shouldn’t be making it even easier. I get that you have some MH issues, but if it creates the difference between you having enough money to eat or not, then you can force yourself to make a phonecall if your MH doesn’t get in the way of you running errands and being at your mums beck and call

@AndreaC74 by that logic claimants are on £77 for an hour's time attending an appointment then.

I meant that it should be prioritised - like a job is when arranging stuff / visiting people in hospital. If it pays the bills it needs to be priority whether it's work or benefits

This.
Or if missing the appointment(s) is deemed reasonable.

It’s not a good idea at all. Prices aren’t going down anytime soon, so when will the sanctions take place? 5 years? 10 years?

It's always mh. No, you missed the appointments and uc are very clear on what happens. Don't use excuses now. Just go to the appointments.
Yes I do know what I'm talking about. I had to jump through hoops to make sure I wasn't sanctioned. You aren't at work yet...so you are literally expected to have time for the appointments.

That’s really not true. An awful lot of people would not be entitled to a penny if they were to become unemployed.

My partner has severe mh issues and cannot get in cars etc, and recently got sanctioned his entire award as hes in the wrong group so has to go to 3 monthly reviews. He had to be forced in a state of complete panic, being ill, etc, to attend in a horrifying state or he'd end up homeless. For 3 missed appointments they agreed his reason for not attending was a good enough reason, then suddenly nope, extreme mental distress at travelling and being away from home wasn't acceptable. He's been promised his next app over the phone, which he repeatedly pleaded for for the first 3 missed apps, but got told uc is a face to face service only. Is it bollocks, they can do it when it suits then like pandemic and the 2 heatwave days!

I don't have any experience of the system, but I'm sorry things are so difficult for you right now. I'm glad that you have a job starting soon and I hope that this is a fresh start for you.

Hospital staff may rarely suggest relatives come urgently to see the patient, but when my Dad was in hospital, ignored by overworked nurses, in a ward with dementia patients screaming all night, by Christ he needed me and I missed tons of work appointments, Family come first for fucks sake, and I hope to fuck my kid comes and helps me if I'm suffering in a sinking NHS hospital.

How do you know if her mum has anyone else to rely on?? As for not budgeting properly, fuck me, have you lived on benefits??? I haven't but I wouldn't patronise someone unless I've walked in their shoes.

Is he on the right benefits if he has such severe MH issues?

I don’t think sanctions should be lifted entirely, as these benefits are to help whilst people look for work and not having consequences for not turning up isn’t going to help them in the long run when they get a job.
unfortunately it means people like you who aren’t taking the piss also have to pay the consequences.

But I do think there needs to be a hardship fund or more help from the government to help with the rising costs of things.

Can you access a food bank?

@ImWell thats a whole new thread in itself you still have to attend at intervals and that’s if you can get on the right benefits.

Unfortunately I know from experience there are points when the NHS assumes every patient has someone ready and waiting to do whatever it takes to assist.

I've turned up at a hospital before to be told my (terminally ill) husband was due to be at a different hospital in an hour and there were no ambulances available so I needed to drive him.

I've also been taken in myself by ambulance and then told to make my own way home - in PJs, with no taxis available for an hour (and I suspect one wouldn't have been overjoyed to take me if it had been) and still needing to be pushed in a wheelchair because I was so ill. I was lucky a friend could come and get me promptly as I really wasn't well enough to wait around.