Am I the only one who thinks scrimping and saving can go and get fucked for bare essentials

[Freedomfromunfairbills]

All the advice about cost of living seems to be ways you can scrimp and save to possible cobble together enough money to stay alive on bare necessities such as food, water, etc. Am I the only one thinking fuck this we just should not accept this when many of the companies jacking up their prices are making record profits. Even if it’s technically possible why on earth should I give up new clothes, gadgets, TV, holidays abroad, ect all to fund the obscene riches of the one percent. Instead of this advice on how to possibly meet these we actually need to say on mass no we are not surfs under the feudal system and we refuse to become a peasant class enough is enough. We should demand the government steps on and nationalises these companies and demand immediate taxes on the ultra rich to fund it all. I’ve always been fairly right wing and conservative but surely this is simply some kind of feudalism that will reduce many of us to little more than peasants and ruin the quality of life for many. Aibu?

I'm with you OP. ✊

If there is no incentive to work for these ' luxuries' the economy would fail.

Surfs (sorry!) that's hilarious

Worth to whom?

Decided how?

Yes they do. When you include all taxes (and of course include tax credits and benefits) the highest earners do pay the highest fraction of their income in taxes.

Here’s a link to some ONS data on the subject.

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/personalandhouseholdfinances/incomeandwealth/bulletins/theeffectsoftaxesandbenefitsonhouseholdincome/financialyearending2021

I read your link @ImWell could you tell me exactly where that point is made? I can’t find it.

this seems fairly obvious though:

“The richest fifth of people pay 2.3 times more in indirect taxes (£8,500) than the poorest fifth (£3,800), driven by greater expenditure. However, richer households pay a smaller proportion of disposable income on indirect taxes (9%) than the poorest fifth (23%).”

To be clear, Im not disputing your point

It’s in the total household income before and after taxes and benefits. The lower income households have a net negative taxation rate, receiving more back than they pay in, which is paid for by the higher income households whose income drops by the largest percentage.

This is across all taxes and benefits.

Are you choosing to ignore the fact that the Russian invasion of Ukraine was enabled largely by Germany's reliance on Russian energy? Everyone, literally everyone including an idiot like Donald bloody Trump, warned Merkel. Putin has been emboldened by that dependency, believing Europe would turn a blind eye, and will tease German public opinion throughout the winter by turning down the flow when he feels like it. He must be hoping for a cold winter. As far as I know, Germany is still paying Russia over Euro 800 million PER DAY, thereby funding the Russian war effort. In the face of that, how can anyone wish to align themselves with German politics? Our politicians are bad - I'm the first to admit they are out of their depth - but they are not better elsewhere.

Thank you - my phone had distorted the
article, now I see it.

This is interesting but it doesn’t take into account net worth?

what about Assets and employment benefits that aren’t taxed as income? for example, I used to work in an office where many staff had drivers and company cars, if the Director wasn’t using the car/driver we could be utilise those resources without them being taxed to us as a benefit. Bad example in the scheme of monetary gain but all I can think of. Company would also buy cars for cash, list them as an asset, take the depreciation, and staff would get a new BMW without benefit taxation.

It’s fairly easy once your net worth reaches a certain level to legally avoid taxation in the U.K. so this seems to paint an odd picture.

I don’t know if I am making a lucid point or not but when I don’t have a migraine I will read these stats more thoroughly.

What they are saying is that the top earners via paye etc already pay the biggest amount of tax out there and once you tip into 100k you hit 60% tax and then drop to 45% you then lose tax free pension contributions. They already shoulder 25% of the income tax. That’s before other taxes.

You can’t just keep taxing positive contributors more to provide even bigger packages for negative contributors.

You’ talking about extreme wealth which is often hidden away. That is not what they were highlighting.

The government should step in and protect us - that’s literally their job. They are meant to represent our interests. This unholy mishmash of Brexit and rampant unchecked capitalism cannot be blamed on Covid and Putin otherwise other countries would be suffering equally. This is literally the Tories and their supporters’ faults. And it shouldn’t be about taxing people on eg 65k a year more. It’s about dealing with stuff at the SOURCE - big business.

Why are workers having to get their wages topped up with benefits if the company shareholders are making a profit?
Why are wages not rising?
Why were house prices artificially inflated during 2020?
Why has there not been a sensible cap on fuel bills?
Why is the NHS being run into the ground?
Why are water companies not forced to fix all leaks?
Why were all schools, now academies, handed over to their private ownership including land that belongs to us?
Why was the Royal Family given a financial stake in offshore wind farms for no reason?
Why did past governments not realise that relying on political foreign enemies for fuel was a bad idea?
Why have we not been investing more in other sources of energy eg making every new build have solar panels?
Why are a lot of the new builds in city centres being sold off to the Chinese/Russian/Saudi markets and not even being offered on sale to local people?

etc etc etc…

I’m so angry that people are still voting for these idiots. It’s wicked what’s happening and a lot of people don’t seem to care until something happens which affects them personally.

You’ talking about extreme wealth which is often hidden away. That is not what they were highlighting.

Yes, I think this is where my problem lies, the accumulation and acquisition of wealth among UHNW people isn’t fairly taxed and they represent what, some insane % of global wealth. To me, that % of people are far more relevant to global economics (and British) than people who earn over £100k in the U.K. .

Two different populations.

No, it’s all based on income (which, to be fair to me, was the metric in the post that I was replying to). We don’t have a wealth tax in the UK, nor any place where we have to officially declare our net worth, so there’s not any similar data for that.

Wealth distribution does matter, but it doesn’t always follow the distribution that you would expect, and throws up some confounding data. On the first point, egalitarian Sweden has higher wealth inequality than the UK, and on the second, a wealth-driven measure would show (for example) that a newly qualified lawyer on £100,000 a year who’s just spent his savings on some tailor-made shows and a Saville Row suit would be worse off than a pensioner on £100 per week who can’t heat their home but who has £200 in a teapot to put towards her funeral.

This I totally agree with! All your questions and no answers.
Some people seem to be just resigned to keep accepting this.
I cannot comprehend it.
I just want the whole of the current goverment gone for good.

As above, though, wealth isn’t taxed at all in the UK, so we definitely can’t claim that the super rich are avoiding or evading it.

It’s also worth bearing in mind what the very richest people’s wealth is in. Elon Musk is inconceivably wealthy, but it’s not in cash, it’s in the value of his companies. His money is building electric cars, sending rockets into space, pretending to build a fast underground railway and so on. It’s being productive, providing services and goods that people want, jobs for tens of thousands of people and so on.

It may well be better for society if it was shared among a load of pension funds, but nearly all of the value in his companies is additive to the total amount of wealth in the world, it’s not taken from others.

But the last time we checked there were more people who voted for the Conservatives than voted for any other party, so of course they get to form the government.

If you want a different party to govern you need to convince people to vote for that.

Labour supporters never seem to want to do this, though, preferring to insult and sneer at Conservative voters instead.

One day maybe this will change, and when it does, if your arguments are persuasive you may get the government that you want.

The prices of energy has gone up due to a shortage of supply. You don’t have to pay for it but if you want to that’s the price. Actually because of the cap it’s being sold at a loss. The energy suppliers aren’t making any profits although the energy producers are.

so why should you pay for it? Well if you want it you need yo pay the price. That’s life I’m afraid

Taxing the rich is more of a left wing idea. The reason conservatives are reluctant to do much is preventing companies from getting profits and taxing the rich is completely against their ideals. Perhaps you aren't as right wing as you thought!

This. I’m not a Tory voter but I accept democracy and all this sneering and demonizing of Tory voters doesn’t help.

the government does tax companies profits.

Democratically we voted to keep things as they are and let the wealthy take most of the money. I have no idea why

But in the UK, under this government, we tax the rich more than we tax lower earners, and more than Labour taxed them. What then is your evidence for your claim?

Wealth distribution does matter, but it doesn’t always follow the distribution that you would expect, and throws up some confounding data. On the first point, egalitarian Sweden has higher wealth inequality than the UK

Wealth yes but on income, the UK is one of the worst in Europe.

AS i told you, Cons have run the economy v badly, so lowest 5th have seen incomes fall, top 5th have seen them increase.

You can't tax people more who earn just a few '000 above the Threshold.