To think women are more toxic than people would like to admit?

[MarthaMayver]

I'd like to start by saying by no means are all women toxic, I'm a female myself and have always been a huge supporter of feminism and "sisterhood" if you will. However the more behaviour I witness from women, I'm starting to stray away from seeing them as allies.

I have worked in female dominated sectors my entire life and have constantly had to witness cliques, gossiping, power plays, passive aggressiveness, and downright bullying. I had to leave my last job as it was affecting my mental health so badly.

I always thought this was just part and parcel of working in groups. However I started a new job last year, with an equal spread of male and female colleagues and there has been none of this. I'm now wondering if the problem with all of my previous workplaces was the fact that they were female dominated.

To me, it's very obvious in person how women favour men over their own gender, regardless of how much "female empowerment" and "Women Supporting Women" is preached these days. For example, they will let men get away with mistakes they wouldn't let other women get away with. Male incompetence is often seen as "cute", whereas the same behaviour coming from a woman would be laughed or sneered at.

There are so many stories coming out in recent years of mothers favouring their sons over their daughters, and at worst bullying and abusing their daughters whilst worshiping their sons. I now think back to my own childhood and I can remember many occasions where my mother would put me down for something, while supporting my male siblings for doing the same thing. There were also a lot of sly, underhand insults that I didn't realize at the time, that were never directed towards my brothers.

I'm prepared to be told IBU, but I'm also very interested in knowing how many people agree, or if anyone has any similar experiences.

I work in a fairly evenly- split environment and can confirm their are unpleasant people of both sexes. Off the top of my head, there are more unpleasant mean than women. Their issues seem to stem from fragile or inflated egos or misogyny. My current immediate team is all female and there is no nastiness. My female boss is the best boss I've had.

@Tinaaaaarrrghhh yes, I see what you are saying. I believe testosterone may be linked to risk taking behaviour. So this could be innate in anyone who has high levels of this hormone. The willingness to take risks doesn't have to result in violence which I think is where socialisation comes in. If you are right and we are determined by our hormones we could channel those drives towards something creative. I am not really sure about the testosterone case- don't some women have high levels of this too? And isn't there a chance that its interaction with an individual's particular biology will have very different effects?

@gnilliwdog

Some women have high amounts for women, but it’s still likely to be ten times less than mens even if high. But yes it interplays with other things. For instance If a man is of very low intelligence high testosterone is unlikely to cause much good for himself or others (unless your a successful boxer or sportsman or something). But if he can channel it into other areas which he would probably also need other traits to be able to do it can result in good or even great things.

Women are humans and have the same human failings as men. What they don't have is a society structured around their needs, so 'bad women' have far less impact, and 'pretty good women' who just take what's offered even if it's unethical (as pretty good men do by 'helping out' at home rather than splitting 50/50 for eg) also have far less impact on those around them.

@gnilliwdog

It shouldn’t come as much surprise that stupid men with an excess of energy and motivation to do something (while lacking the intelligence to actual do something constructive) are probably responsible for a lot of crime and violence in society.

@Tinaaaaarrrghhh interesting, I will have a think about it! I expect there are clever men who have high testosterone who are abusive also. So perhaps socialisation affects how males direct these drives.

There are awful people of both sexes. I've worked in male dominated environments most of my career so come across more men who are totally toxic than women. It was the opposite when I was at an all girl's school. In my experience it's pretty much proportional and much more dominated by what the culture is that people go in to than what gender they are because nice people simply don't thrive in a toxic culture, no matter their gender.

I‘ve experienced something similar when I was young.
Chubby as a child, I started exercising when I was14/15. I lost weight and had a nice figure for a while (while being still shy and not exactly super confident). I remember wearing a pair of denim shorts on a school trop once - short, but nothing crazy and my friends asked who I was trying to impress (and it really didn’t sound like a compliment).
Couple of years later I was going through a difficult time at home and gained weight again and got some snarky comments from those same friends.

Not my experience AT ALL

Agreed, seen it many many times.

What a lovely thread to get women at each other's throats 🙄

I think my friend who drives a brand new Range Rover and only works two days a week in an admin role might be able to answer. 😂

There isn’t though. Again, if you find a study that says testosterone is 100% linked to increased aggression I’d love to read it.

You clearly ignored the 10 studies I posted in response to your earlier comment (which have all been posted on here loads of times and always conveniently ignored).

No, I saw them. Not one of them says it’s a definite link.

See above.

From the New York post one

Research Gate one

That's not really how science usually works though. If you read dozens of studies showing that people with higher testosterone are more violent then you'd have to be in strong denial to conclude that it probably wasn't a thing.

OpenText

So where's the definite proof that the patriarchy exists? Sounds a bit of a flaky concept to me.

I’m quoting your own links here. You’re the one who’s so sure there’s a definite link between testosterone and aggression, even when the evidence you provide disagrees with you!

The patriarchy is a social concept, not a scientific reality in the same way biology is.

Proving some 100% is extremely hard though. Why do people neuter male animals if hormones don't make them more aggressive?

Why do male robins become more aggressive and territorial when injected with testosterone? Why do male elephants become extremely dangerous during 'musth' when their levels rise by several hundred percent?

The answer seems pretty obvious unless you're the kind of person who needs a reason to moan about men and can't afford to have that undermined by innate characteristics.

@Pumperthepumper

The stuff she posted (and there’s far more) clearly shows testosterone does cause aggression.
It’s a well known fact across the animal kingdom. Seriously what is the point of trying to deny it for the “everything is all socialisation” fantasy. It’s beyond absurd.

Human males and females are different and differing hormones create different beahviour the same as in all animals. Thinking otherwise is a fantasy of the ideological mind.

To stop them having offspring? I’m not pretending to be an expert in biology, I’m saying there isn’t a definite link because there isn’t. Men are not biologically violent. I see that as a good thing.