To think women are more toxic than people would like to admit?

[MarthaMayver]

I'd like to start by saying by no means are all women toxic, I'm a female myself and have always been a huge supporter of feminism and "sisterhood" if you will. However the more behaviour I witness from women, I'm starting to stray away from seeing them as allies.

I have worked in female dominated sectors my entire life and have constantly had to witness cliques, gossiping, power plays, passive aggressiveness, and downright bullying. I had to leave my last job as it was affecting my mental health so badly.

I always thought this was just part and parcel of working in groups. However I started a new job last year, with an equal spread of male and female colleagues and there has been none of this. I'm now wondering if the problem with all of my previous workplaces was the fact that they were female dominated.

To me, it's very obvious in person how women favour men over their own gender, regardless of how much "female empowerment" and "Women Supporting Women" is preached these days. For example, they will let men get away with mistakes they wouldn't let other women get away with. Male incompetence is often seen as "cute", whereas the same behaviour coming from a woman would be laughed or sneered at.

There are so many stories coming out in recent years of mothers favouring their sons over their daughters, and at worst bullying and abusing their daughters whilst worshiping their sons. I now think back to my own childhood and I can remember many occasions where my mother would put me down for something, while supporting my male siblings for doing the same thing. There were also a lot of sly, underhand insults that I didn't realize at the time, that were never directed towards my brothers.

I'm prepared to be told IBU, but I'm also very interested in knowing how many people agree, or if anyone has any similar experiences.

Also in my 20s I started a fitness regime
They made comments constantly about my new found hobby
None of them went to the gym

I looked great
The comments became so much that I stopped going and gained weight

Clearly I now see in hindsight obviously what they were doing.

@Walkaround
I think “patriarchy” is just a basic thing that in the past jobs and tribes were dominated by physical strength the same way as chimp societies are and so men ruled. Patriarchy isn’t really some big conspiracy or something that wasn’t and then one day was, it’s just the nature of our species. If we evolved from elephants it might be different, but we didn’t we evolved from primates (chimps being the closest) and the truth is our closest primate relatives are patriarchal af, more so than many species like wolves and others, but not enough to push into that thing were there’s like one bull for 200 cows, so of course we have been too.

In reality I don’t see it changing to real equality ever. Men will always be bigger and stronger and more cutthroat when they want to be.

But there’s more than one way to rule over men if ya know what I mean.

@KettrickenSmiled

Im guessing because in the lesbian relationships you have double the estrogen but there’s only one woman’s count in the straight relationships.

But it actually applies to individuals as well. As in the higher your estrogen count the more likely you as an individual are to be unsatisfied in your relationship. Perhaps explains why women instigate more divorce? (If this is true than that’s kind of worrying for the future).

@Tinaaaaarrrghhh

Estrogen is not the reason
Socialisation is the reason

Overweight woman have more circulating estrogen (adipose tissue contains estrogen) - does that make then more aggressive

HRT replaces estrogen - are woman commenced on HRT the office cow?

Men who carry more weight also have more estrogen. Are they the office bullies?

Im guessing because in the lesbian relationships you have double the estrogen but there’s only one woman’s count in the straight relationships.

Wow. How does that work? Does all the oestrogen just leak out of their pores & combine to make them miserable? How very unsettling.
No wonder so may PP think female-only groups & workplaces are so toxic. Can't be anything to do with joining the wrong groups or workplaces, can it?

No wonder the patriachy continues

All that estrogen

Agree with you

I totally disagree. I'm also a woman.

No wonder the patriachy continues

All that estrogen

😂😂😂Too right @Ilovemycat1 !

So far on this thread I have learned that

1. the patriarchy causes female toxicity
2. female toxicity props up the patriarchy
3. it's all the fault of oestrogen
4. some PP don't much like women, but instead of saying so, say they prefer men because all women are bitches.

I need a cup of tea before my brain falls out.

@KettrickenSmiled

I don’t see why you were snark about it. It’s what I read I don’t know exactly em how it works. I was just guessing that two people with higher likelihood of dissatisfaction in a relationship would make for a more volatile relationship. The research didn’t say everyone with high estrogen would be unsatisfied just that it was more likely. So logically you double your chances of that with two women as opposed to one in a Hetero couple

@Ilovemycat1

Socialisation comes from our biology though, it’s absurd to think it’s the other way round. We are animals like any other.

And actually men who have high estrogen can have problems with trouble regulating emotions and so on.

I was snark about it because it's bullshit.
That doesn't mean I'm snarking at YOU @Tinaaaaarrrghhh - just the notion that women are unhappy & aggressive "because hormones".

Men have hormones too. Testosterone is not an excuse for aggression.

@KettrickenSmiled

Its not bullshit though, it’s well studied. Estrogen does make you more likely to be dissatisfied in a relationship as well as have a higher chance of neurotic traits - I didn’t say it made you more agressive - violence doesn’t always start or continue in outright Im agression in couples, it can start over petty squabbling and be low level.

And testosterone does make you more agressive, that’s a fact.

Humans are animals like any other. Why do we act like they’re not and hormones don’t make a difference?

I am a feminist to my bones, but I have had some horrible experiences in some all woman environments. People spreading nasty gossip, bullying and cliques and so many social cowards following the Queen bees even to their own detriment. I imagine it is just a microcosm of a toxic society. Perhaps women behave better when there are men around. I don't know, but it always disappoints me to see women behaving so badly.

@SlouchingTowardsBethlehemAgain

They say women are a socialising influence on men but I think the opposite is also true.

I also think feminism is in some cases used to justify toxic female beahviour because some people cling to the label because they are the types who really can’t believe they can do any wrong or ever be wrong so it offers a confident justification for dismissing any one who disagrees with them as sexist.

@Tinaaaaarrrghhh

Never mind the statistics about sexual abuse and homicide caused by men... its not them to blame. Its their hOrMoNeS. That molecule testosterone has alot to blame. Maybe Hitler had too much.

Lets all get the violins out as we are all victims of our hormones

As a female boss I am going to bully my employees - I am expected to with all that estrogen circulating around me. Not my fault. Its the hormones 🥺 I will be in tears after being so volatile and emotional.

@Ilovemycat1

Im not saying it can’t be controlled at all just that their are limits. Men will always be more prone to sometoxic behaviours and women others.
Its like if you think of an autistic person, of course they can control some of their beahviour and try to be more empathetic but it has limits as to how much can be changed.

It’s an interesting hypothesis that some toxic behaviour can be caused by excess sex hormones. It’s true that excess testosterone is linked to violent aggression in men. It is also true that excess estrogen (estrogen dominance) is linked to irritability and mood swings…both of which might then cause passive aggression in women?

Perhaps a way to reduce human aggression (violent and passive) is to put everyone on hormone balancing medication? Could it be that simple?

Of course there is an interesting sci fi film called equilibrium that concluded such an attempt would result in a totalitarian dystopia and eventually fall into anarchy.

@Discovereads

Very likely. Of course these things must make a difference.

Im not even saying it like it’s something to be solved. It’s just a thing. Some people here it and they can’t accept it because it means we can’t change. But that’s right, we can’t and there’s nothing to be done about it.

Forget your human and Imagine if you were watching some nature documentary about some long forgotten species called humans and this information was given in the program, people wouldn’t find it hard to believe at all.

Or try to find a solution, they’d just accept it as the way that species was

Tell that to the campaigners wanting more recognition of the effects of peri-menopause and menopause, including depression, hot flushes, brain fog, anxiety, etc. They are very vociferously and actively arguing that female hormonal fluctuations can have significant effects both physically and emotionally throughout a woman’s life, and that allowances should be made for these - so going further than simply arguing that hormones can help explain some behaviours and suggesting women may actually need help, understanding and support due to the effects of their hormones. Men don’t tend to get the same levels of support - their hormones are just viewed as toxic and that men should have better control over their behaviours regardless.

Not everyone of the same sex reacts in the same way to hormones, or has the same hormonal fluctuations, of course, but it’s ridiculous to argue hormones don’t have powerful effects on our behaviours.

You have just compared autism - a complex and limiting neurodevelopmental disorder with male toxicity.

I am done.

Hormones are an interesting point. I am sure I read something about some fish failing to reproduce as the presence of antidepressant residue from human waste leached into their water. It prevented them from risk taking behaviour I think. I am guessing if you use tap water your hormones are affected by the traces of medications in the water.

@Ilovemycat1

Also female toxicity

I think the idea that autistic people don't feel empathy is a myth, by the way.