To be annoyed at this work situation? Advice appreciated.

[Celia24]

I've been working at a company for a little under a year. Really enjoyed it so far and especially in last couple of months have grown hugely in confidence and delivered key project.

Here's the messy/annoying part: my line manager is leaving and I'm disappointed as I love her. In our recent 1 to 1 she told me that she is putting me forward for a senior position in the team. To be clear, there is me (most junior but more 'associate' level), my manager (senior) and the director of department (my boss's boss who I also work with and know well).

She said she had sent on her list of objectives I needed to tick off to get that promotion to her boss. I anxiously asked who they were going to hire to replace her - and she tells me she is going to recommend they promote me and get someone more junior to work under me. At a recent work function two other colleagues approached me and asked if this meant I was getting promoted. And I feel ready.

Well...she is now on holiday and I've seen not one, but two, senior positions in the team open up (clearly instigated by boss's boss). I also spoke to this person yesterday who said he was impressed with me and keen to discuss my future but hadn't had a deep conversation with my manager (clearly: no promotion discussed despite what I've been lead to believe)

To my mind, I am already performing at that senior level. So to see they are now recruiting for two positions above me has really annoyed me. I even looked up one interviewee on LinkedIn and saw they were less experienced. How should I handle this?

She had a conversation, you have no idea whether the person above her even agrees with her, and are ranting about them doing a perfectly reasonable thing of, advertising for jobs they need not the one you think they need that you think is yours.

Yes you are right. I said to boss's boss I want to make sure all the expectations are lined up and he agreed.

So actually in a few days time both myself and boss's boss are going on holiday for a week. We come back the same day and he has said he would be free to discuss further then if I want. So do I:

• wait for that conversation and lay all cards on table?
• or apply for that role in the meantime anyway

You don't have any cards to lay on the table.

What do you mean?

I told him myself and line manager had had a conversation about the objectives and my progression. He said let's have a proper discussion about it. So I'm saying - do I wait for that in a week's time or apply for the role now anyway

Key word in that is progression. Ie they don’t believe you are ready now, but are interested to see how you progress with the objectives and following your career,

However ultimately the responsibility for your career is yours and yours alone

You've been there 6 months - your boss put together a Development plan to help you aim for the next level. That's it! The company can't just give you a job. You have to apply! The discrimination laws they'd be breaking by not advertising the role could cost them ££s!

They sound like they're doing everything thing properly. Be thankful you work when you do.

The meeting the bosses boss has called sounds like a 'put you straight' meeting to me. Your boss should never have been offering promotions to you. Bosses Boss sounds like they want to know what you were told.

Whatever... just apply for the job! It sounds like the one a rung below your bosses could be right for you. (A senior role after just 6 months, whilst not totally unheard of, sounds a bit unlikely.)

Thanks @JustGotToKeepOnKeepingOn - appreciate the post.

I do feel ready for the position just below my manager which is still senior. I read the spec tonight and my experience matches it for sure. You're right about them following the process...I do really enjoy working there and they are a good place. Boss's boss reiterated they were really impressed with me so far so that can only be a positive.

And no... don't wait a week for the chat... apply now!

When you do meet next week you can tell bosses boss that you've applied. That shows them how serious you are about the role. And shows that you aren't trying to get a promotion by stealth- which is never a good look. Don't forget, your colleagues expect to see a fair recruitment process.

If they wanted to promote you or for you to apply you'd know about it, so you are up against whoever does apply. And even if you are the only applicant, they don't owe you a promotion.

It's a lot easier to work with people who have seen you get a role through a fair and diligent process! You'll have far more respect from your colleagues.

I was thinking that.

The OP is sitting arguing with randomers on MN about why she should automatically get the promotion talked about months ago that seemingly doesn't exist, when what she really needs to do is stop blathering on, and get on with applying formally for the job she wants!

You are coming at this all wrong, OP. It doesn't matter whether YOU think you're ready, it matters whether THEY think you are ready. 'Objectives and progression' do not equal promotion. They are the way you get promotion, and you have yet to implement them.

I'd be amazed if your boss actually said they are creating a role for you that you will just walk in to. And if she did, I imagine your boss's boss will have something to say about it.

Honestly, OP, this whole post feels like you are getting ahead of yourself. Please lower your expectations. I very much suspect the meeting that you will have to 'align' is going to be expectation setting that you aren't ready yet, and why.

Ha @Starseeking I am definitely not arguing! Or angry in any way. Just posting for advice. I haven't been in this kind of situation before but I'm sure lots of others have.

And no, I don't believe I should automatically get it. Or not be proactive - I do expect my manager to be honest about conversations that have taken place, especially when I'm told the brand new role was created for me in mind.

I'm really tired now but I'll regroup tomorrow, have a good look through the spec and write an application. As others have said, I can't really complain if I don't apply.

By all means apply for the job but be prepared that you may not get it.

Did I read upthread you've only been there 6 months?!

Perhaps @StepAwayFromGoogling but if I'm not ready yet I'm very close and the fact is I've already implemented the main objective. When I started in my role I worked alongside the managers which is normal and expected of that level. However, I have been managing all the projects myself for 2 months now without fault - which is exactly what's expected of the senior person.

I know I'm ready for this. Anything they have reservations about I will take on board and look to improve but I'll definitely be positively arguing my case.

@StepAwayFromGoogling a PP said 6 months, but that's incorrect. I've been there longer but less than a year.

That's 'demonstrates ability to take on and react to feedback' ticked then.

Apply for the post.

Email boss' boss to let him know you have applied for it. CC in boss.

Prepare for the meeting with BB

Have meeting with BB.

Jesus fucking christ just apply for the bastard job!

I wouldn't promote you because you overthink so much don't exactly demonstrate having the ability to make decisions or communicate effectively.

Do not trust anything not in a formal written offer. I've been screwed over time and again through lying bosses. If you are over performing in your role they won't want you to move out of it, so will keep you there as long as they can. Why - you're cheaper and they won't get the same if they promote you. If you're indispensable you're unpromotable.

Apply for all roles you see that you want to do. It raises your profile and gets you on people's radars. Do not sit back and wait for recognition of your worth / value and rely on someone else's word to get you where you want to be.

Op… as clearly and plainly as I can possibly put this.

1. Stop overthinking this
2. Apply for the position
3. Tell both boss and boss’s boss that you’ve applied
4. Continue to work on Checklist
5. Stop arguing with those giving the same advice

It really is that simple. Imagine that “applying for position” is on your checklist. Because it really is. Doing anything else opens you up to not understanding how things work.

Good Luck

Just apply for the role you think you’re most suitable for?

My understanding of what you’ve described is that those above you don’t think you’re ready for the role yet.

As a result, you have two options, here.

Option 1 is apply for the job and use the interview to prove that you are ready for the next role. Whether they hire you for it or not is up to them, but it shows willing and enthusiasm for your own career progression.

Option 2 is you wait, complete your training over the 6 month period and then have a discussion about the role that is going to be “created” for you.

However, some advice-

I was in your situation a year ago. I was promised I’d get x, y and z training and be put forward for promotion as soon as possible. 4 months went by and I received absolutely 0 training (there was always an excuse; “too busy” on these days to do anything, can’t do it this week because x has left, etc, etc). My current role at the time was boring the tits off me by this point and I was no longer happy in work. I knew I had to do something off my own bat, as my manager certainly wasn’t going to fulfil what they had promised.

A role came up that was perfect for me and exactly what I was looking for. I applied. Out of decency, I did tell them before I applied. The conversation that followed was the most reaffirming conversation I’ve ever had in my numerous years for the company that you should always put yourself first. So many excuses for why I wouldn’t get the role (all centred around the training that they had failed to provide me). It was very clear at that point that they actually had no intention of training me, and wanted to keep me at the level I was at because it was easier for them.

I got the job (they hadn’t ever seen my CV as they were a replacement manager for the manager who had hired me, I had suitable experience that filled the gaps from another role I was previously in). I have done very well in the role and haven’t looked back. However, if I didn’t get the role, I was fully ready to leave and work for another company. I had already began my job search in case that role didn’t work out.

So, ultimately, I think you should apply for the role. Your manager might have honest intentions with their plans for you, but that doesn’t mean everyone else will.

Always put yourself first and don’t rely on promises until you see something in writing that confirms the position is going to be offered to you. In nearly every single job I’ve ever had, I’ve seen so many people screwed over by false promises/promises that were never delivered (for whatever reason). The thing that everyone had in common in all these circumstances was that they “trusted” their manager would sort it for them. They never did, or they rescinded the offer because someone they liked more was available, and other reasons similar to this.

You have to take control of your own career, and not leave it to chance. Work on your application over the weekend and have it ready to send off next week. Do interview prep and try to fill as many training gaps as you can in the next week or two.

Maybe you won’t get the role, but it’s better to try and know you didn’t let the opportunity pass you by, than not do anything and regret it.

Just re-affirming my previous post, but @k1233 has it spot on, here.

I know your manager is leaving so it’s not entirely the same (as it isn’t going to benefit her whether you stay or go; she isn’t going to be there), but that doesn’t mean it won’t benefit her replacement.

As much as companies love promoting from within, they love having reliable, high performing, consistent candidates in steady roles, more. They don’t always want to lose someone from a role who can do the role with their eyes shut and do a great job every single time. Especially if your new manager has come from a different department or company altogether- they’ll still need consistency within the team to aid their transition into the role.

I was quite young when I started working for my current company. I was naive back then and just believed that if I did great work, I’d be praised for it, which would ultimately end up in me being trained for a promotion. That didn’t happen.
I then believed that if I made my career plans known and discussed these with my manager, showing willing and enthusiasm, they’d help me to get to where I wanted to get to. That also didn’t happen. Easier for them if I stayed where I was- one less new person to train to replace me.

I only got to where I wanted to get to by having weeks and weeks of shit in work, coming home and having a massive “fuck this” attitude change, pushing myself onto the radar and no longer letting other people influence my path with lies which only benefitted them.

Of course there’s a nuance to this- you have to actually be certain that you can do x job, but you need to be able to see the difference between constructive feedback which makes sense to why you wouldn’t be ready for x role, and excuses which are covering up the fact that someone doesn’t want you to move up because it would make it harder for them/someone else.

But, as @k1233 has said, don’t trust anything that isn’t a written offer. Until it’s written down, it sadly doesn’t exist, yet. Until that offer is written and confirmed, so what you need to do to make it happen.

No isn’t in charge of your progression, you are. A manager should be coaching and developing, sounds like she is doing that for example she has given you guidance on what next steps might be or what is required for the next level. I have been in management for over 25 years, I have never prepared a set of slides for a particular employee to guide them in their career, I cannot imagine doing this, I have never heard of another manager preparing a slide show for an employee on a 1:1 basis. I think she has given you a generic set of competencies expected at the next level.

And I didn’t think you needed to “speak to boss’s boss” yourself. There are jobs you are interested in, you need to apply for one of them, you keep seeing to think you can speak to this person or that person and get in through the back door. I have operated at Head of department level, if I am recruiting internally, I will talk to candidates about the role at the interview. I would not be wanting to have side conversations with certain candidates. It may look inappropriate.

I see later on you have posted about talking to your bosses boss about your darn objectives slide show that the person who is leaving gave you. You would be better off, securing an internal interview and then taking the job description and person specification for that role and demonstrating how you meet the criteria.