To be annoyed at this work situation? Advice appreciated.

[Celia24]

I've been working at a company for a little under a year. Really enjoyed it so far and especially in last couple of months have grown hugely in confidence and delivered key project.

Here's the messy/annoying part: my line manager is leaving and I'm disappointed as I love her. In our recent 1 to 1 she told me that she is putting me forward for a senior position in the team. To be clear, there is me (most junior but more 'associate' level), my manager (senior) and the director of department (my boss's boss who I also work with and know well).

She said she had sent on her list of objectives I needed to tick off to get that promotion to her boss. I anxiously asked who they were going to hire to replace her - and she tells me she is going to recommend they promote me and get someone more junior to work under me. At a recent work function two other colleagues approached me and asked if this meant I was getting promoted. And I feel ready.

Well...she is now on holiday and I've seen not one, but two, senior positions in the team open up (clearly instigated by boss's boss). I also spoke to this person yesterday who said he was impressed with me and keen to discuss my future but hadn't had a deep conversation with my manager (clearly: no promotion discussed despite what I've been lead to believe)

To my mind, I am already performing at that senior level. So to see they are now recruiting for two positions above me has really annoyed me. I even looked up one interviewee on LinkedIn and saw they were less experienced. How should I handle this?

It seems pretty normal to me - they can't just give you the role, even if they created it with you in mind. They have to put it out for interview, and you'll be expected to apply and to interview for it too.

That's standard practice in most workplaces. Your line manager is a bit remiss if she didn't give you the heads up it was live on the system, but that's not stopping you from applying now.

I understand what you're saying but this isn't what has happened.

My manager doesn't know it's live on the system. She's still on holiday and ignorant to the vacancy, I guarantee it. It's boss's boss who has advertised it not knowing my own line manager had said they were putting me forward for the exact same position.

Why can't they give me it directly? I was told it would be a promotion after 6 months ideally, I thought that was how promotions worked is it not?

This is why I asked if you were in the UK, but I actually now realise it also depends on your line of work

So generally speaking in the UK you have to apply for a promotion, particularly if it involves line management, and usually it will be advertised externally as well.

That said there are some careers where it might not be the case. For example you might enter as a junior developer (coder), then become a developer, then a senior developer without necessarily applying for a promotion. But even that's not always the case and quite often you would need to apply for a senior or lead position.

Somebody's lying.

I agree. Somebody's lying. Or there is some shocking miscommunication going on.

So the job you want has been advertised but you don’t want to apply?
just apply for the role, sounds like your line manager hasn’t shared her plans with her boss.

but either way the job you want and can show you can do is there to apply for so sounds like you’d have the best chance of being successful so get your application in

@Celia24 It's standard practice. Most workplaces have rules around hiring, so, for example, they try not to open themselves up claims of discrimination by advertising a role and allowing anyone to apply. You also don't tend to just get given senior roles without interviewing, there may be more people than just you interested in it within the same company, so they need to make it available to them too.

Your line manager didn't explain the tick box exercise in your performance review very well - just because you tick all the boxes doesn't mean that you are guaranteed anything, especially if she isn't the hiring manager. They may not even have a role available (although in this instance they obviously do now). It's improving your skills with it in mind to help you move up the ladder, but you need all the skills to do that, including knowing when to apply and how to accomplish the interview.

The PPR will just help it along by preparing you for it, and maybe giving you a point or two extra in your favour during interview.

So @Sheepreallylikerichteabiscuits how do you go about this?

I mean the most major project I've worked on is with boss's boss. I ended up taking it off his hands completely because he trusted me to get the job done and it was a success. So I just sort of refer to the team our work together as though I was applying to someone I don't know?

Yes that's exactly how to do it.

So you apply as normal, you have a higher chance of getting an interview anyway as you are an internal candidate and generally unless they are absolutely sure they wont hire you you will get an interview.

Then when they ask you the standard interview questions you answer them giving them examples from both your current and previous roles.

It can feel a little weird to be fair but just try to forget that these are people you work with.

Also it can be easy to slip into the habit of saying 'we' when answering the questions. Don't do that, they want to hear what you did so they need to hear 'I'.

I think you’re making this way more complicated than it needs to be. I’ve just been promoted to a new role that was explicitly created for me but I still needed to apply for it to satisfy equal ops.

How do you apply?? Like any other job! Take the person spec line by line and show how your skills and experience match it.

Good explanation @GeekyThings thanks.

Yes, apply

Whats the alternative?? You will likely miss out on any promotion, be even more pissed off and leave after a few months of feeling demoralised and upset.

Your line manager is leaving so it’s not up to her to run the recruitment/ promotion process. The people who are running it are taking a very standard approach of advertising the role.

So apply and knock their socks off with your competence and abilities. Good luck!!

I've recently been through a recruitment exercise within an organisation. Those involved in recruitment and interview must remain impartial, and quite honestly, can not have any interaction with interested parties regarding recruitment, other than discussing the job specification in neutral terms.

To do otherwise might be considered biased towards a particular candidate, and could potentially causes loads of issues.

Just apply for the job. God luck

Good luck not god luck!

@Celia24 No problem! And applying straight away shows initiative and registers your interest in not just the role, but moving up in the business - that should come across in your favour too!

You'll been fine, just treat it as you would any other interview, with lots of prep, and the added benefit of knowing they already like your work, so you've got things to highlight in the interview that they'll already know and appreciate about you 👍

I'm my experience, when a manager leaves an organisation their seniors review the team and overall structure to evaluate effectiveness and how the team is meeting the business plan.

Your boss's boss might have done this and decided on the new roles, even though your immediate boss had recommended something different. Neither might be lying. But both might have differing views of the team structure post your boss leaving.

It's up to you to put yourself forward for opportunities.

Why don't you ask your boss's boss for an 'of the record' chat about the vacancy to see if they feel you might fit, or whether there are development needs before you might be ready for advancement.

You're obviously a valued worker with a good reputation. Your boss's boss is probably expecting you to take responsibility for your career progression.

You need to apply for the job, for the purpose of equal opportunities. It’s not your job more than someone else’s just because you already work there. Even if you’ve been prepared to take the role by your manager. You’ll have a clear advantage anyway at interview as you’ll probably need less training than other candidates.

You either apply for one of the positions, or you don't.
Your line manger is leaving; their boss is organising the ads.

No you need to take responsibility for your own career, not leave it in the hands of somebody who is leaving the organisation. She did not “have a duty” to do anything.

It can be very demoralising in an organisation is when somebody is handed a position without it being advertised or them going through a recruitment process. For transparency, it is better for organisations to run a process that at least looks fair!

You are being unrealistic to expect that somebody who is leaving the organisation, gets a say in who will be recruited into vacant positions after they have left. If you want the job, you need to apply for it and hopefully the good reputation you have built up will stand you in good stead.

They can't just give it to you directly. Most companies have a policy where they must absolutely advertise a role and usually the way it works is a quiet conversation with the person they want in it (which your manager has had with you), then you apply like anyone else, then you will be interviewed and you may even see others being interviewed. That's just how it works as it's a new role for you. If you stayed in your current role they might put you up a grade and not interview etc but that's not a new role for you then really is it. It's basically still your existing role but with a higher grade.

@Aprilx She is still my manager until she leaves though. Therefore she is still in charge of my progression so that should surely still mean something?

But it is obvious now I need to cut out the middle woman and speak to the boss's boss myself. I'm new to this kind of situation - clearly I need to take the bull by the horns. It's nerve wracking!

- so it seems like jumping the gun.

Applying will indicate that you are interested in promotion and keen to find out what you need to do to be promoted.

Waiting until you are 'ready' may still lead to promotion by much, much more slowly.

Which approach do you prefer?

Successful business is a lot to do with taking calculated risks.

Apply. Whatever has been said or not said you have zero chance without applying.

When I asked the boss's boss yesterday it was very clear no promotion had been discussed. Or he's playing dumb

My money would be on the second option; with the requirements around advertising externally managers can be sensitive around being seen to have "lined someone up", and I certainly wouldn't assume what has been discussed and what hasn't

As nearly everyone's said, get your application in, carry on with the progession and keep your fingers crossed

Crumbs overthinking much. Just apply for the bloody job. I’m bored reading this. Maybe there’s a reason they are leaving you out of the loop if you overthink this much.