To think that very few people can manage £4200 energy bills

[Butterflyfluff]

news.sky.com/story/energy-bills-forecast-to-rise-even-higher-than-previously-thought-12668906

This simply isn’t manageable for the majority of people.

Where’s this going to end?

Its OK , Liz Truss is reducing corporation tax so BP and Shell can keep more of their profits.

On the plus side, fuel prices have reduced a lot. From around 192p a litre at the garage nearest to me to around 175p. That is a considerable decrease, lets hope it continues.

It’s insane. I checked what I was paying recently

I’ve just been looking at my bills the past few years

end Of 2018 I was paying £2.50 for gas - it’s now £6.97 per kw

end of 2018 elec was 12p , 2019 13.31 - 2020 15.71 - 2021 20p and now 2022 28p

let alone standing charge - was 19p for elect now 39

something has to be done

thry can’t keep putting up the cost every few months

I said on different thread people will starve or die of cold

Where do you live?
We have genuinely talked about leaving the U.K.

Don't bank on it. The US shale play is tapped out trying and the US strategic petroleum reserve releases all year are the only reason we don't have $200/bbl. oil right now.

We're very probably past peak oil now. It will only reduce in output each year, form now on, forever.

Neither Sunak nor Truss (the no handouts woman) are going to solve the problem (too busy telling Tory members what they want to hear) and Johnson can't be bothered (too busy thinking about his next job) so we are in the sh@t with no sign of the cavalry. Banana monarchy is about what we are at the moment.

@Liebig in an abstract sense I agree with you, it is only when energy becomes more expensive that people will start seriously changing their lifestyles and perhaps as a society we can improve sustainability.

BUT it is not acceptable for a wealthy country like the UK to sit back and do nothing while a huge number of people freeze, starve, lose their homes and jobs, etc. While corporations make huge profits and city bankers take home record level bonuses. That is an immoral level of inequality.

And even if the government don't care about morality (which clearly they don't) it is in their own self-interest to prevent serious unrest. Hence the Marie Antoinette reference, she didn't care about the price of bread and look where that got her.

This is an interesting summary of the historical and current situation: House of Commons Research Briefing on domestic energy prices

researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-9491/CBP-9491.pdf

Its possible the 1200 won't be included in their calculations depending on how it is being paid. If its being paid directly to you I'd guess you need to put that money into the account?

@dreamingbohemian and anyone else that’s interested in all this.

BTW the energy prices are also impacting businesses - because they aren’t protected by the price cap so we can expect businesses to struggle and go under due to energy costs. And hospitals, schools and so on will also be struggling - think about the energy demands they have.

This is a massive issue, not just impacting household finances.

Yeah thats true, and its definitely going to be one small bit of help as I use my car a considerably amount for commuting.

With that being said its summer, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see it rise again through the Autumn as Russia really starts to play silly buggers.
then again demand will be shrinking into recession so maybe not!

PEDRO12 I have calculated it myself including the £1200 & I'm still going to end up in debt

@Mothstoaflame
Thank you for the info. we are actually already on the priority list and are currently looking at getting a generator because I am worried that the whole system will fail and we need an oxygen concentrator, suction machine etc to keep our youngest safe.
It is a huge concern because if the gas reserves run out then there wont be any electricity in the system even if you are on the priority list. It feels a v fragile system at present.

Is the fix cheaper per unti than 28p currently?
They will want 500 direct debit but that is not your actual usage.

I would take what works out cheaper per unit (even with rising cap) and then ensured I gove accurate readings every month

Thanks @ChilliPB I'm learning a lot from you today!

I mentioned earlier I work for a university, so they are not covered by the price cap?? Holy shit. Well here comes a new tidal wave of redundancies.

In theory what should happen is the increase in prices, especially in a bottom up recession (one caused by lack of money due to higher prices elsewhere) that the drop in peoples income should lead to a drop in demand globally in oil/gas. This is already happening in the USA and hence why oil has dropped in price in the last few weeks.

Eventually the drop in prices means supply starts to drop and then prices eventually rise back up to a equilibrium that the market can sustain.

The wildcard is always what happens in the Middle East though, any major problems over there is how you go 200+.

I think about it. I don't know if I am coming to the wrong conclusions but I wonder if, with climate change, the more south you are the worse heat and drought you will have. I find the heat we have in this country this year a bit too much. I would hesitate to move any further south with the temperature and drought they are experiencing. I admit, I haven't really studied any scientific predictions about it though!

Northern France. France is not without its difficulties (!!) and I'll always love and miss England. It's just liveable there anymore - except for the superwealthy.

@ClottedCreamAndStrawberries we also have solar. We are off grid so I have no idea on what the feed in tariffs are but some people do get some money back on their summer bills.

we get so much solar that pretty much every day from March to mid October we can use our solar to heat the hot water so we use next to nothing in terms of oil either in those months. We even use the slow cooker or actifry to avoid using the LPGS gas on the hob

@1dayatatime The situation in California with Enron, that's not really linked to what's happening here. The deliberately turned off power stations to push the price of power up and quite a few of them ended up in prison so not really the same as keeping profits high (buy futures at a lower rate and then sell when the market rises).

I would argue that most Western nations are no longer "wealthy" in that we don't have the raw materials and productive capacity to basically claim we are.

Let me be blunt: the UK has very little real wealth left, same as a lot of our European partners. We have tapped out most of our major natural resources and gone down the financial route, which is basically playing Monopoly while everyone else has to toil in the fields and work in the mines. The US is different, given their reserve currency status and mineral wealth still available. But poor old Europe...

I would say that without The City, the UK becomes a rather mediocre second tier economy. We primarily have GDP based on services, and a good chunk of those are services within the border. If people aren't washing money through the system in buying and selling stuff in pubs, shops and whatever else people do now (dog walking? Childcare? Media influencers?), then a good chunk of our wealth vanishes pretty quickly.

What worries me is the standing charge going up, so even if we are using less energy we'll be rogered for the standing charge.

Yes, I am more hopeful about this than the Don't pay campaign. If Mick Lynch is involved I think there will be some proper campaigning and organisation. I don't think just accepting the hit is OK, because it will cause a huge amount of suffering and damage to our country. I will have another look at this.

@LabiaMinoraPissusFlapus yup. My standing charge jumped up price of a kwh🙄 twats

Its OK , Liz Truss is reducing corporation tax so BP and Shell can keep more of their profits.

Shell and BP don't pay corporation tax (www.theguardian.com/business/2021/oct/30/shell-and-bp-paid-zero-tax-on-north-sea-gas-and-oil-for-three-years), so it doesn't really make any difference to them.