Would you expect an 8 year old to do these things without help?

[OhImVisiblyOver25]

Brush teeth properly
Shower
Wash shoulder length hair
Tie shoe laces
Do and undo top button on a shirt
Sit properly on a chair at the dinner table

Nearly 8 year old ddq, everything but shower without supervision and wash hair. In the next few months I expect her to just need help with hair washing.

Laces are tricky though, she learned how to do it because we got her a pair of tie dye hi tops and she was determined to be able to do them herself! We often have to re-tie though so she doesn't tread on the long laces she has left.

Yes. My 6yo can do all of this with a reminder. I don't need to stand there and watch him do it.

I would expect a 7 year old to be able to do all those things but may need a bit of help with shoelaces.

i mean not really.. my 9 year old would struggle to wash hair properly herself (mostly cos of the curls but I imagine long hair would be hard too).

she can brush her teeth fine but often just needs a reminder.

shoe laces she can do but still is v slow (so was I to be honest)

sitting at the dinner table - she can of course do, but she does get fidgety if it’s for a v long period of time.

i just think there is no point getting annoyed, they all get used to and good at things in their own time. Sometimes we need to adjust our expectations according to how they actually can manage.

8 year old ds can do all of those things except tie shoelaces. Whether he does do them or not is a different issue ...........

I've just realised I didn't mention in my reply about sitting at a table.
Toddlerhood. That's when mine did. Not a chance would I accept this being an issue if they are old enough to understand me. (NT children of course. SEN etc, it's a different ballgame)

Based on your response I'm more concerned about your parenting than your child's independence skills.

Brush teeth properly (yes with timer to help)
Shower (yes)
Wash shoulder length hair ( no )
Tie shoe laces (maybe)
Do and undo top button on a shirt (maybe)
Sit properly on a chair at the dinner table (yes)

My ds is 9 nearly 10 ne struggles with laces and buttons in general he can wash his hair but its short and still sometimes misses a bit

Most of it. I wouldn't be too concerned about the hair, it can be tricky to make sure you've got it all if it's on the longer side. Laces can be tricky too.

I'm going to be honest. DS is 7 and he can brush his teeth to a mediocre standard, can not tie shoe laces, does not wash his hair effectively (smells like a wet dog afterwards), and although he can do the top button the process is excruciating. He is good at sitting at the table for the length of an average meal.

He would also need to be reminded several times to do all these things (except eat), and he would need to be chased pretty sternly into the bath/shower.

I do not expect much will change in another 6 months.

@OhImVisiblyOver25

Totally child dependent. Wouldn’t get stressed. My 3 all hit those milestones at different ages. Not necessarily all at 8.

Easier said than done sometimes though I remember losing my shit with the shoe laces but realise on reflection it wasn’t that important. Not really.

My 8yo yes, but I wouldn’t judge any other 8yo who couldn’t…or their caregivers. (There’s also a long list of other things my 8yo couldn’t do…but that list, yes)

Mine is just turned 8 and these things are a daily battle for us and I’ve had enough. I know she’s old enough to do them properly.

Honestly, I know it's painful, but in the real world all DS's same age friends are about as bad as he is, which is similar to your DD. Maybe we haven't trained them right, but I suspect we were much the same as kids but just went out scruffy and half washed (my childhood photos support this). She will get there in the end. Don't ever compare your real child to the alleged children of people on Mumsnet - it isn't fair on the real child.

Yeah sure you are.

Ok thanks everyone. I know she can do these things because at the end of the battle she can magically do them. I don’t mind helping her with her hair as it’s very thick but brushing he teeth just strands there with the toothbrush in her mouth and doesn’t even attempt to move it around her mouth. No special needs.

What do you mean by daily battle? Do you mean they can't get the hang of shoe laces and top buttons which can be tricky for some kids who are behind with fine motor skills so they ask you to do it and this annoys you? Or can they do all of these things well but either don't do them because they are forgetful or they don't like their top button done up, would rather play than clean their teeth etc? I'm not sure any of this requires a battle at age 8. My 9y/o can do some of those things but will need reminders but that's what parenting is.

My 8yo is hypermobile and has ADHD, and struggles with some self care tasks as a result. From your list:

Brush teeth properly - Yes, but we still brush after her once a day just in case and check her brushing every so often with a disclosing tablet.

Shower - Yes.

Wash shoulder length hair - Not fully. She wets it, we add conditioner and comb it out (she has bum-length 3c curls so the tangles are still too much for her. We co-wash hence no shampoo), she will then have a go at combing if she fancies it. She washes the conditioner out herself.

Tie shoe laces - Yes, but only the 'bunny ears' method. It took a dedicated effort to teach this: 10 mins a day, every day for 4 months. She has been able to do this for a couple of years (it was a lockdown goal!) but still looks quite awkward in the way she handles the laces.

Do and undo top button on a shirt - No. The hypermobility affects her fingers and makes this very difficult. I buy the M&S shirts with a velcro top button.

Sit properly on a chair at the dinner table - Ish! Depends on the day! She used to wiggle around so much she'd regularly fall off it. That happens rarely now, but she'll still often sit crouched or on one foot. At school she has a band around the bottom of her chair to help her stay rooted.

If your DC is struggling with all of these things, I would be looking if there are any other signs of hypermobility/dyspraxia/ADHD.
Eg how is her handwriting? Check her movement against the hypermobility checks you can find on Google.

Well, I'd expect my 8 year old to try it on with the teeth, to be able to shower (and have to be kicked out of it in fact), washing hair he does, but I do it every now and then so I can properly condition it, and I comb it once a week(it's long and curly - really tough for a child to deal with alone). He doesn't have shoelaces or buttons, but I'd expect him to give it a go and be able to do it after a bit of practise, and certainly sit nicely at the table (and put up a protest at me insisting he uses the knife and fork properly).

My eldest would be fine with it all except the buttons and the laces (and no long hair) at that age - but he's got a co-ordination disorder so he doesn't wear buttons or laces anyway because why make trouble!

@OhImVisiblyOver25 I know she’s old enough to do them properly.

If your child hasn't reached an appropriate skill level for their age, then it's time you observed objectively and actually noticed whether the problem is laziness or that child really struggling and still not completing that task.

I've seen a lot of children scolded and sometimes ridiculed for being lazy or called stupid when the fact was there was a very valid reason for them not being able to do a series of both gross and fine motor tasks. Being repeatedly derided for not being able to do certain tasks gnaws away at a child's self-esteem very quickly.

There's vast difference betweeen can't and can't--be-bothered that some people, often parents, just don't seem able to pick up on.
The child's level of intelligence isn't a factor either, as @QueenCamilla posted upthread.

If you're concerned about your child not doing what you consider to be age-appropriate tasks, please either self-refer or ask your GP for a referral to a paediatric Occupational Therapist so they can let you know if there's a valid reason for your child not being able to do the things his/her peers can.

No to the teeth and the laces.

Our 8.5 year old can do all of those things easily but very often won't.

My daughter turned 8 last week and she can do all of them but she doesn't wash her own her because it's really long and thick but if it was shorter and finer she'd manage fine.

Dd turns 8 in December and can do most of the above, might struggle with a top button and shoelaces though.

You knew what I meant 🤷🏻‍♂️

This is the issue we’re having. She can do these things, if she needs to be ready for something SHE wants to do she can do all of these things easily. If it’s not something she wants to do she pretends she can’t do these things. I’m in my own in the mornings with her and the baby and I’m trying to get all of us ready and it doesn’t help when I have to keep sending her back to the bathroom to get her teeth cleaned properly as she absolutely will not let me do it for her, plus I also think I don’t need to do it for her as she can do it herself but is just dragging ass with it. I hate starting the day off stressed and so does she.