Another MIL thread...

[Kellerman]

I’m having my 3rd and final baby in a few months. I’ve had 2 previous postpartum periods that neither of went the way I wanted them.

Background: Pre-babies, PIL never overly interested in me, I thought we had a good relationship. Saw them for maybe a few hours every 3 to 4 months, suited me just fine. hey live a 2.5-3hr drive away, my mum lives 10 mins away and watches the kids one day week as we both work.

PP1:
DS1 born, inlaws went from pretty disinterested in us to overbearing insanity overnight. I had 6 of them show up in the hospital the morning after my csection, I was in agony, I’d hemorrhaged,on morphine etc etc. The night I got discharged from hospital after my csection, 3 days pp, they rocked up with my DHs BIL x2 + girlfriends (who I'd met twice), an aunt & uncle who all slept in our house on couches and floors for the next couple of weeks on rotation until I lost it and got DH to tell them to leave, I barely got near my newborn in this time. It was awful and they were back again in a week for more visits. All I wanted was my mum to look after me and make me soup but she couldn’t get near me because we were overrun, literally no more seats to sit on in the house etc. I saw my mum for less than an hour in total those first few early weeks. I’m very bitter about this.

PIL started inviting themselves to stay in our home for between 3-5 days every 3-4 weeks minimum & often would bring extra people we didn't know were coming. They would spend these visits ordering us around, taking over my baby as if they were the parents, undermining me, ignoring what I told them about baby and doing what they wanted anyway, treating us like kids (we are in our 30s and very independent). I was very overwhelmed with all the additional cooking, food shopping, cleaning and laundry that these visits caused.

PP2: June 2020 – peak lockdown.
The first lockdown started to lift 3 weeks after DS2 was born (3 glorious weeks of just our little family). Six of them came to visit for the day and stayed for 7 hours. I was struggling with a reflux baby, getting maybe 2/3 hours broken sleep a night, had an infection in my wound and was on 2 sets of antibiotics and various painkillers. I can’t say I enjoyed one minute of their visit.

3 weeks later, when I am 6 weeks pp, lockdown starts to lift again. I’m still in a bad way and babys reflux has gotten worse. They say they want to come and take their campervan to visit and stay with us (they wanted to sleep in the driveway but I said no and made them book a caravan park, only 5 mins away). I tell them that the most we can do is a weekend, Friday to Sunday (because mentally, emotionally and physically that is all I can cope with), MIL says ‘No we are coming for 2 weeks’. During those 15 days of their lovely holiday they did not lift one finger to help. They didn’t even ask if I needed help, they sat around drinking tea for 12 hours straight in my house. Not one load of laundry done, no quick whip round with the hoover, no meals made for us, absolutely nothing. All they did was order me about, tell me rather than ask me their plans with toddler, repeatedly tell me to go out (go walk the dog, go to tesco, go out) and leave my kids with them, hold newborn and not give him back (don’t worry I grew balls after my first son and had no issues just snatching him off her). Think of all the usual overbearing crap and they have done it.
I remember going out with my newborn one day because I couldn’t face them and I ended up sitting in the car with him for hours and hours in a carpark because I just could not face going back and having to speak to them. They literally decided to take a 2 week holiday at a postpartum womans house against her wishes, I mean, wtf?!

So now my question, PP3 coming up. AIBU in telling them to GTF out of my postpartum period this time round? I think I could maybe cope with them for a 1 hour visit maybe after the first 2 weeks, but if they are having to travel then I don’t know if this is completely unfair of me?

They literally do no leave our house unless I spell it out for them, which recently I’ve had no issues doing by texting them beforehand and saying ‘visit will be ending at 4pm’. Previously they would stay until 11pm or so even after I’d gone to bed. They don’t take hints and have zero concept of acceptable boundaries.

They have pulled so much crap since my kids were born I have zero tolerance for their BS now. We have a pretty rocky and uncomfortable relationship since I started standing up to myself a couple of years ago and they do not like the new dynamic (or me).

Just tell them in no uncertain terms when and for for how long they can visit and what is expected of them on that visit. Also throw in examples of their unreasonable behaviour previously. If they don’t like it they can lump it. Maybe get your mom in for some stern back up too as I’m sure she’s just as sick of them as you!

Well I guess the issue is that you haven't stood up to them before (as neither has he). However on those previous occasions you were in a vulnerable position healthwise, hormone wise, post partum and simply put he wasn't and didn't make a stand.

He needs to make sure he does this time because although you are all guns blazing now you may possibly be in the same position after birth.

How about writing them a long letter explaining how helpless and overran you felt the other times and for this reason you wont tolerate the same level of interference or be receiving overnight visitors for x period.

Then just refer them to the rules letter every time.

Can you visit their house with new baby if you feel well enough? It is far easier to set boundaries around how long you will stay at someone else's house than it is to set them for how long someone is in yours.

My in laws like to stay at mine til 3/4am as they don't work, so we visit them as we can then say at 7pm that we are leaving as it's youngest DCs bedtime etc. At our house we don't have that excuse because we can just put her to bed.

But no, you aren't being unreasonable to ban them from your house.

Well stand up for yourself then. What's your issue. They're awful. Your husband should have ensued that some of the things that have happened didn't have a chance to happen. He should have this because they're his parents. But if you find it empowering to fight yourself then fight but I don't know how you'll do it post C section etc etc, it just doesn't seem to be working for you then.

Tell them to stay in caravan park and you will visit them

YANBU

Boundaries get easier the more you practice (still practising here but I now can't believe the shit I used to put up with) - sounds like you've been doing a great job at maintaining some of these over the last couple of years. They sound awful, really awful, and haven't considered you in all of this at all - all about them and their wants and needs.

Kind and thoughtful people wouldn't even require you to give much thought to boundaries but these people clearly need you to have thought about them seriously, and how you will maintain them. Like @Triffid1 suggests I think your DH is going to need to practice and think through practically how to maintain sound boundaries - as these suggestions are excellent. He is probably unaware of just how invasive and unreasonable his parents are if he's grown up with it.

Oh don't worry they are not getting anywhere near me for the first 2 weeks. I'd prefer 3 months tbh.

Then that's what you do. Sod them. You say they dislike you anyway as you've already started keeping them at more of a distance: might as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb.

When someone has been used to riding roughshod over your wishes, when you do begin to assert healthier boundaries you will experience hard pushback. Whether 3 weeks or 3 months is immaterial; they'll kick off anyway so you might as well do what you want.

They're another brand of CF, but it's great news that you and your husband see this for what it is, that he's coming out of the FOG and seeking therapy/support with this. That's all brilliant news, as with in-laws like this you need to present a united front and tell them how things will be.

'No, we are staying for three weeks', won't fly.

You're already doing brilliantly OP: it's very hard for a partner who's grown up with this kind of dynamic to snap out of it overnight. The fact that yours is now undergoing this process suggests there's a lot of hope here for a future healthy marriage.

If you haven't already read it, I can thoroughly recommend Susan Forward's book Toxic In-Laws. Yours sound a lot like The Engulfers to me.

Wishing you well for a safe delivery and peaceful post-partum period.

Can you not just say any visits will be you visiting them rather than the other way around? That way you are in full control of how long you stay and under no obligation to treat them like guests.

Something tells me these are not the kind of people that will take no for an answer.

You may have to prep your Mum that you and 3 children may be turning up unexpectedly at the last minute because if that was me and my DH didn't chuck them out I'd be leaving and not going home until they'd gone.

You partner / DH needs to be loud and FIRM about what yours and his wishes are. OP, you have my sympathies! They sound horrendous!! Let your other half tell his parents that they are not welcome - give incidents of previous visits as examples if you wish - but please do not let them treat you like this anymore. What awful, awful people!

People aren't suggesting your husband should deal with them because he's a man and you're a woman - they are suggesting it because they are HIS parents

1 do not tell them your due date. Or move it forward by 2-3 weeks
2 do not let anyone stay at your house
3 limit visits in advance eg you can arrive on Sunday at 2.30 and we will expect you to leave at 4.00
4 be prepared to pull them up on any pa comments, especially if they try and use the older children to get their own way. Eg mummy is making granny leave now but you would like granny to stay to play with you/read you a story/make you tea
5 if you want 3 months with no visitors/these visitors that is perfectly OK
6 if people turn up without warning you do not have to answer the door

I had a less extreme version of this, op. But it was still stressful. I gave birth in summer 2020, ended up in hospital for a week with an infection. Finally released and mil came 12 hours later though I got DH to ask her to come the week after. She refused and my DH to this day still feels terrible for not standing up to her and insisting (so he's supporting me fully this time round). She came and ruined my first days at home with DS and I'm still bitter about it.

I'm due again February and this time, I've told mil straight she won't be coming until 4 weeks pp and only for 2 nights. I have my auntie coming to watch ds and be there for me in the beginning as we live abroad and my mum can't get the time off sadly. Auntie will stay a week then DH has a month of paternity. Mil can come for 2 nights towards the end of DH's paternity to meet baby then my mum comes for 2 weeks, then mil is welcome back any time from 6 weeks for a week or two. These were my conditions (as I said she's not as extreme as yours!). Mil was a bit disappointed she wasn't going to be the one to come and watch Ds but she is a 4 hour drive away and she would need to be there for when we bring baby home and after last time, I'm not having it. But she accepted it and said that was fine.

Stand your ground, tell them when YOU'RE happy with them visiting. Normally I'd say it's their grandchild but in your situation, that sounds horrific and I'd definitely put down my boundaries now and let yourself enjoy this pp.

As much as you deny it, the problem is your DH. Whether he's improved or not.

What you have described is nothing short of insanity op. Absolute insanity. And he allowed it.

Is this a cultural thing? I can't imagine this happening in my family.

They sound absolutely bonkers. Who has so little self awareness?

I’d pack up and leave the second I saw them turn into my drive.

would tell H to let me know when they’re gone.

sod that!

I'd tell them they can come after 3 weeks and see the baby for an afternoon. Up to them if they stay locally overnight or not. After that say no to any visits until you are ready - if that is 3 or 6 months, fine. you need your dh to say this but tbh I'd have no problem saying it myself in your situation. this is your life, your baby, your very important post-partum period to bond and get used to this whole new person. They sound overwhelming.

And when you are ready for them to visit after three weeks is absolutely fine quite frankly.

tell then you will not be cooking or cleaning after them, if they start ordering you around say well you know where the kettle is I’d love a cuppa too.

you need to make their visits uncomfortable for them.

and when you’re tired, take baby back from them, tell them you’re going to rest and please leave quietly. Then disappear to your room and don’t come down till they’re gone.

absolutely do not even consider allowing them to stay in your home overnight.

but I’d mostly go with ignoring them completely and ensuring I was on the way out with the kids each and every time they turned up. So they never do without your agreement.

Er, you don't have a PIL problem, you have a HUGE DH problem. Who lets their parents treat their wife like that after she's just given birth? You need to lay down the law with him first, because he sounds like an arse.

This ^. It's got nothing to do with him being a man and everything to do with the fact they're his parents, his family.

Your DH doesn't want to upset his parents but clearly doesn't give a shite that his life partner and wife is upset?

Kick them all to touch @Kellerman !

If you can afford it, I'd consider getting a very stern Nanny for the time that they are about to visit who can say "Mummy needs to take Baby up to feed baby now, every one else needs to leave!" or "Mummy needs to take Baby for a nap now so every one else needs to leave as there needs to be absolute quiet for them both". I'm thinking someone like the Katy Brand character from Nanny McPhee here:

They've lost all grandparent privileges in my opinion. I wouldn't let them come over until you feel ready. Not easy with 3 young kids, but would it be easier to just go visit them, then you just leave when you've had enough. Or meet somewhere half way, if the journey's too much?

I think you should tell them you don't want any visitors until you are fully recovered from your csesction. Although you will be happy to wataspp them pictures and updates in the meantime. When they do visit be clear about what is an acceptable time frame. I.E we would love you to come on Friday for the weekend. If they say they will get staying longer then tell them you aren't available during that period and stick to it. Not host them outside the time you said.

Give them one hour only at 2 weeks then another 3 months away from them. If there is any crap e.g. 'no we're coming for 2 weeks', get ready to leave the house with your children and stay at your mother's.
Your dh needs to shoulder this as you will be feeling very tired pp

But for goodness sake, I'm a grown woman so why can't I stand up for myself a bit?

A good question, one we're all asking. You haven't, and neither has your husband.

YANBU to tell them they can't come. Full stop. For as long as you like.

I agree with PPs that your DH shares the blame with the ILs here though, as he is doing nothing to protect you/ stand up to this intrusion. It's odd to me that you consider this your problem when it's his parents.