How difficult is it to have somebody sectioned?

[Aroundandaroundagain3]

I've posted on here a few times over the years about the problems surrounding my DM's alcoholism and the distress it was causing me trying to get her to engage with help. I finally took the majority advice and went NC had I've a blissfully stress free 6 months until today.

I had a call from the warden at her over 50's housing complex who does her best to support her, she said DM has gone downhill massively. She's not eating, spending all of her money on drink, has been incontinent, is in a right state with her appearance and hygiene and has had more falls. She has been going to other residents for help but refusing to engage with paramedics. Warden thinks she has reached crisis point and is having a complete breakdown.

She wants DM to be sectioned under the MH act and was calling me to let me know of her plans to contact the MH team and SS to try and get it done.

I don't have any direct experience but I don't think it's as easy as she might think.

How difficult is it to have somebody detained under the MH act? Do you think it'll happen?

IME it’s not that difficult to get it to happen in circumstances like your mothers.. but as soon as she is assessed, she will be right back out - usually within 24 to 48 hours, unless she is actually a danger to herself or others due to being removed from realty.

So I don’t think this will solve the care home managers problem. It needs to be passed up to their boss who will have experience of having to find more suitable homes for residents and can work w SS to do that.

Thank you all 🙏

I've just read up about b12 deficiency and it sounds really shit, that may well explain the issue with her legs then.

I'm kicking myself a bit as I let the barriers down and got myself involved against my better judgement by going to see her. I was doing so well being NC and I barely thought about her at all bar the odd occasion and even then it was just a fleeting thought.

When I made the decision to go NC It was, as you described PP, like she was taking me down with her. I was constantly anxious and short tempered from the stress of her drinking and behaviour which isn't like me at all.

She sobbed when she saw me today, she looked so frail and helpless. It only served to confirm the conclusion I'd already made, she'll never be able to be the parent/grandparent I wished she could've been before the drink took hold.

Overall I think I will be at peace with my decision to go and see her today though as atleast when the time comes I won't have any guilt weighing on my conscience that I didn't see her before she went.

I'm going through a really similar situation with my sister. It's heartbreaking isn't it. She has very poor mental health, clearly hasn't been coping, lives alone in isolation, has cut everyone off and has end stage liver failure. She is in a very poor state mentally and physically. She also hadn't been eating, but then that was due to her liver failure. My understanding is that you cannot be sectioned for alcohol misuse at all, although can be if mental health is the primary cause. It's a different balance because of course one effects the other It is rare to section. For a 28 day section/assessment to take place the health authority has to ensure that they are not only assessing but have the ability/means to treat that person. And therein lies the problem. As a member of her family you are able to request a psychiatric assessment (I think that it might be called an A1 form or something like that), but it has to be done by the nearest living relative. As her daughter you may well be. They might carry out a mental health capacity assessment. You can absolutely contact her GP and social services and request help/express your concerns. Mind has some excellent online resources about all of this and also a really useful helpline. I'm really sorry that you are going through this. Losing someone through alcohol misuse is hideously tough, stressful and sad isn't it?! We're going through an awful time with it. 💐

Just to add, I think that in order to request a psychiatric assessment/sectioning, you also have to have seen the person and witnessed their behaviour for yourself within the last 14 days.

They won’t section her if she’s under the influence of alcohol.
in order to be sectioned a social worker and 2 medicals need to be in agreement that detainment under the mh act is required in order to keep the person or others safe, they have to lack capacity
it doesn’t apply to people who are on drugs or alcohol as that is not deemed to be mh. Although in my view it is as people drink and take drugs to deal with their mental health.
sadly we can’t force anyone to seek help for alcoholism they need to want to do it

She called me this afternoon in tears as they've told her she has liver and kidney damage, I don't know to what extent but I wouldn't be surprised if she's on the brink of cirrhosis.

I'm getting lots of calls from others too for her, like the CMHT, the warden at her housing block, her sister.

I had 3 calls from her sister in the space of an hour and half today when I was trying to do my weekly food shop with my kids in tow. Mother wanted a cigarette apparently and there was a shortage of wheelchairs on the ward. God knows what she expected me to do about it, short of going there and carrying her.

As soon as I showed some concern as to how she was and what happened, everybody is now trying to drag me back in to NOK duties which I'm not sure I can manage atm. I have alot of complex feelings WRT mum and my own childhood. I care about her but don't feel that I owe her anything if that makes sense. She needs a social worker.

My brother text me this afternoon, he doesn't have a clue what's going on with her and I don't know whether I should burden him with it. He was adopted as a baby so only really met mum properly 3 years ago. I don't want to make any of it his problem, he's had all of this with his adoptive mum too the poor bloke.

@Oioicaptain I'm so sorry for what you're going through with your sister, it really is absolutely shit isn't it? I wonder if your sister is cutting everybody off out of shame, as that's what mum did. When I decided to go NC I didn't say anything i just stopped calling and she just never called me again. It must feel humiliating for family to see you in such a bad way. I was aghast to hear about the state mums flat was in, with excrement and urine everywhere. Do you have any support Oioi ? A few people have tried to put me onto al anon but I would struggle to get to the meetings. I joined a couple of Facebook pages and my posts kept being deleted and I'm not sure why. I don't think it's for everyone but many people swear it changed their life when they were being dragged down with a loved ones addiction issues. Sending you strength at this difficult time x

Thanks so much for your lovely message. I am thinking of going to Al Anon and also I might have some counseling as my mood is currently quite low (I'm also losing my step dad to a terminal illness at the same time and worry enormously about my mum). I think that it is the shame, but also that my sister has huge issues trusting/opening up to people due to events surrounding our teenage years. Both parents drank too much (were functioning alcoholics) and my dad passed away at a young age due to drink related health issues. My sister going through this has raked up lots of issues to do with our past. I wish that I didn't come from such a dysfunctional sad family. It's such a difficult time. The thought of her living alone and going through all of this makes me feel so extremely sad. Her only chance now is getting clean and getting a liver transplant. She was found collapsed by neighbours, was malnourished with muscle weakness and severe ascites. She can hardly walk and needs physio/help with simple tasks such as showering etc. It's like walking on eggshells. On the one hand I am scared that contacting her will make her worse as she cut me off a few years ago for reasons unknown. On the other hand she clearly needs help. And of course, I am scared of seeing her like that and the impact upon my own mental health. I've just ordered a book from Amazon about how to help an addict but to maintain your own sanity and distance. I'll let you know how I get on with it. Apparently family members can get too involved which doesn't help anyone. I think that I want the reassurance that these issues can be dealt with more effectively by others with me playing a background role. I want to be absolved of the guilt of not getting too involved. I want to be able to switch my mind off from this and focus on my own lovely little family. It's so so hard isn't it?! You're welcome to chat to me anytime if it helps. Xx

Just to say that your mother should now have a social worker assigned to her. I personally would take a background role. I would ensure that she has the care in place that she needs from other professionals and then keep her at arms length. Tell her that it's unfair on you to have to watch her kill herself but that you will be there for her if she sobers up. X