How difficult is it to have somebody sectioned?

[Aroundandaroundagain3]

I've posted on here a few times over the years about the problems surrounding my DM's alcoholism and the distress it was causing me trying to get her to engage with help. I finally took the majority advice and went NC had I've a blissfully stress free 6 months until today.

I had a call from the warden at her over 50's housing complex who does her best to support her, she said DM has gone downhill massively. She's not eating, spending all of her money on drink, has been incontinent, is in a right state with her appearance and hygiene and has had more falls. She has been going to other residents for help but refusing to engage with paramedics. Warden thinks she has reached crisis point and is having a complete breakdown.

She wants DM to be sectioned under the MH act and was calling me to let me know of her plans to contact the MH team and SS to try and get it done.

I don't have any direct experience but I don't think it's as easy as she might think.

How difficult is it to have somebody detained under the MH act? Do you think it'll happen?

Thank you so much for sharing that with me.

I'm really sorry for what you went through and what happened to your mum.

I can relate so much to what you have written about having felt responsible for her your whole life. It was the same with my mum. Social services put me on to support groups for young carers when I was 10 or 11. It's not the way it's supposed to be is it? I was never parented by her in any meaningful way. She did the bare minimum and often begrudged doing that.

As soon as I was old enough to be left behind (16.5 in my case) she upped and left, leaving me to fend for myself. I actually wish I left her to it then and didn't follow her down her years later and allow myself to get enmeshed with her again.

When I have spoken with my DH about it all I've mentioned how I expect I'll feel somewhat relieved myself once I've done my mourning after she passes.. most of which I feel I've already done in advance. I would never say that out loud to anyone other than DH as only those that get it will understand.

Also very difficult that you don’t really know what may have already been considered or what discussions have been had. All of that is out of your control and yes you must protect yourself.

Thanks @Aroundandaroundagain3 My mum didn't have a learning disability as far as I know, but she was quite childlike/emotionally immature and it was tough. The only reason I stayed around was because my siblings found it harder and I didn't want to leave them feeling like I wasn't pulling my weight. I totally get where you are coming from about wishing you'd not got back involved.

I'm glad you've got your DH to support you. My mum passed before there was much around online, but I do find Mumsnet useful to post about situations like this that don't fit with societal expectations of how families should be - so do keep posting if you find it helpful to do so. The forum has taught me that situations like this are much more common than we realise.

capacity assessment is not a medico legal process like sectioning is.... its more of a decision making tool that can guide ANYONE in their interactions with people where capacity is an issue for consideration..... for example one of the training examples is where a Social services carer makes a capacity decision about whether to buy scratchcards for her client along with his weekly shopping.
In this example, the warden might make a capacity assessment and decision on finding the person and whether to call 999

I’d say it is extremely difficult from experience with a family member who suffered psychosis.
I’m not sure sectioning would be the right move for your mum anyway. She would need to really want to stop drinking and by what you’ve said undergo a detox under medical supervision. I’m sorry you and your mum are going through this, addiction is awful for everybody involved .

Very doubtful she would be sectioned for the alcohol, mental health units are just not set up for anyone going through alcohol withdrawal. I've worked in mental health for a while and only seen one and that was only as an emergency placement for one night.

It's not easy to get someone sectioned , especially if they won't admit how they feel and mask it

I'll give up on any hope of her being sectioned. I did think it would be a long shot at best but the GP has made it clear it won't happen, and I completely understand why that is.

I think for my own self preservation I need to emotionally detached from this, as per the last 6 months, and revert to a "what will be will be" mindset.

I do know she won't be able to stay at her current flat for much longer so hopefully the council can refer her on to somewhere more appropriate.

Nearest relatives can request a MHA assessment. It might be worth doing this even if it is unlikely to be actioned. it will allow a full assessment to take place and support in the community to be recommended if hospital not appropriate.

www.mind.org.uk/information-support/legal-rights/nearest-relative/sectioning-and-guardianships/

I've only skimmed the thread OP so forgive me if someone has already asked but is are adult Social Services involved ? If not they need to be. I have found them very useful when GPs were no help at all .

Completely agree in contacting adult social care not GP. It is likely not a Mental Health Admission that is needed but they need to assess and offer advice/ support. Contact the local team to discuss.

Just to second all the comments that you need to take care to look after yourself, including walking away if need be. There are no neat solutions to this; it will probably always be messy and unsatisfactory until the end tbh. Sorry if that sounds brutal. You sound as though you've suffered plenty of emotional fallout already in your life, e.g. childhood stuff and her putting her own needs first always, and you don't need to feel that any of this is your responsibility, whatever others might say or imply. Anyone who thinks you can or should do more has no idea what it's like to have a problem parent. It's astonishing how many people imagine that they're qualified to comment all the same, either in moralistic terms or in terms of telling you what you will or won't regret after she dies. Just, knickers to them - they have no clue. Do what you need to do, and say no to anything you don't want.

💐for you Paintsplat I hope my post hasn't stirred up any negative feelings for you. Having an emotionally immature and childlike mum is bound to leave it's mark, I know it has for me.

Thank you all for the advice and suggestions. I'm guessing she'd have been seen by paramedics by now but no idea what happened as apparently she has lost her phone for the 20th time, not that I expect she'd answer anyway nor do I really want to speak to her.

The council won't leave her on the streets will they? She's in her late 60's and really vulnerable. She has her sisters place as a last resort but she has severe MH problems and that's not necessarily a safe/good place to be.

My DH said we could have her here to dry out and I said he must have lost his mind, no way am I exposing my DC to a withdrawing alcoholic.

I am an approved mental health professional and this is my whole job.

sadly alcohol dependence is an exclusion under the mental health act, a person cannot be detained under the mental health act for alcohol use/abuse/misuse alone

Is it always so clear cut? Even when the alcohol consumption has lead to a mental health breakdown and the person being unable to meet their basic needs such as eating and keeping clean?

I appreciate its not possible to fix the addiction but if a mental health collapse is a direct result of the addiction will you still not get involved for the MH side?

@Aroundandaroundagain3 you haven't, don't worry. Like I said I've had plenty of time to come to terms with things, and well, that experience leaves you pretty resilient.

I used to work in a service for homeless people (like a soup kitchen/day centre) and it was rare that women ended up fully street homeless. Whilst the options aren't great, if someone loses their permanent accommodation due to support needs there would usually be some option of supported accommodation or care home (dependent on level of need) and below that, hostels where they would work to get people rehoused somewhere more suitable. That's for people who don't get a 'priority homeless duty for the council to provide temporary accommodation, it's quite possible that your mum would get that anyway, which would mean more help to find something suitable. If women appear to be on the streets its usually noticeable and will come to the attention of whoever supports rough sleepers. That would especially be the case for a woman in their sixties & with some level of vulnerability re their learning disability.

I don't think at all that it would get that far but there are a few different avenues depending on what happens.

Well she's in hospital now but not under a section or any sort of hold with regards to her mental health. An ambulance was called for her on Saturday (the one last week didn't turn up) and they took her in.

She was in a real state and had lost control of her bladder and bowels, her legs aren't working properly and keep buckling underneath her. I expect that's to do with muscle wastage as you mentioned happened to your mum, PP.

She's not mobile at all at the minute and is having to use a commode on the ward.

I saw her today and they've got her on IV fluids, something else to do with a vitamin deficiency and diazepam for the alcohol withdrawal. She's on an admissions ward at the minute but will be transferred upstairs when a bed becomes available. Community mental health team are due to make contact tomorrow and she's not allowed to return to her current address so there'll be some discussion with the council with regards to finding her alternative housing.

What a bloody mess eh.

I haven’t anything constructive to say, but I just want to send my best wishes and my hope that you find a way through this
xxx

It's so difficult. We had this with my mum in the Netherlands, where the laws are very similar. We couldn't make a move on getting her sectioned until it was very clear that she had alcohol related dementia to a very severe degree. In the end she died 4 days before the assessment would have happened, from a fall down the stairs in the middle of the night. She was going to get more alcohol. She refused to just keep a bottle by her bedside because that would have been admitting she needed it. The sense of powerlessness is devastating.

No advice as everything has been posted above, but just to say, I feel for you OP. My Dad was an alcoholic, and died after one bout over 20 years ago. We had long periods of no contact due to his behaviour and didn't get to know his grandchildren ( only met my youngest once).
It's a foul disease and the best thing you can do is emotionally detach yourself from it. You have to take care of yourself and your family, but absolutely do NOT have your mum in your house.
I have no regrets detaching myself from him. I visited him before he died and at that time he was sober and lucid, and he apologised for his behaviour. That was enough and we ended on a decent note.
A week later he was admitted to hospital and passed away. His liver was fucked, and sad to say I didn't feel too much sadness at his passing as his drinking affected so much of my childhood.

I did the dutiful daughter thing and made sure he had a decent funeral , but that was my job done. I felt sad for him that I felt like that , as he was a decent enough man when sober. Just not sober often enough.
Take care OP
Xx

Hoping things improve.

I'm currently watching various people in my life in distress with little ability to intervene. It sucks.

Look after yourself.

Sorry you’re going through this, I have a father who is an alcoholic / drug addict and know first hand they’ll take you for with them if you don’t go NC at some point. No advise re sectioning but might be worth you contacting Alanon for support if you haven’t already.

Take you down with them - sorry typing on phone. I feel endlessly sad for him and it took me a long time to realise I couldn’t help / fix him. It’s such a toxic disease.

I'm sorry to hear it @Aroundandaroundagain3 It's likely to be b12 that they'll have her on; alcohol abuse causes b12 deficiency which eventually leads to damage in the peripheral nerves, and numbness/lack of control of legs and feet is a common symptom. It can improve with treatment though.

Heavy drinking causes a lot of issues related to malnutrition; it affects digestion (stomach issues, nausea, heartburn etc) as well as causing people to lose their appetite, and it affects the body's ability to build and maintain muscle. So the cumulative effect is significant and leaves people frail and immobile as you describe.

The difficult part is all of that can respond well if treated properly, ie medical detox, slow reintroduction of food, B12, weight bearing exercise... but without alcohol. And that's the kicker.

I'm sorry you're going through this. Try and get some headspace while she's in hospital, at least you know she's being cared for and you don't have to try and deal with any emergencies.

It is a bloody mess you're right but she is in the right place and it has set the wheels in motion for a change of accommodation and more social care, hopefully.

I just wanted to say, don't be afraid to walk away.

The illness has taken over your DM she'll never be the person you desperately want her to be.

You're not supposed to be responsible for your DM.

I'm really sorry that addiction and other factors have ruined a huge part of your life, you sound like an amazing DD whose done more than enough.

Look after yourself.

Care in the Community supposed "cost saving" fallout. I wonder has anyone done the sums?