Wondering why there's so much hate for teachers?

[Nannyogg134]

I've just been reading some responses to another thread concerning teachers and working over summer and there's a real mix of thoughts. I know that everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but I'm always very taken back by the amount of negative comments regarding teachers (especially regarding workload and school holidays.)

I've taught in a state secondary school for almost 13 years and I came to the job after working in a care home for a few years. There are pros and cons; the school holidays are great (and yes, they are unpaid- teachers are paid per day of their contract, this is term time only, the wage is delivered over 12 monthly payments for ease of life.) However, there is no flexibility, so I rarely see my own children in sport's day, nativities, or even on parent's evening (if it clashes with something at my school.) Overall, I feel very passionately about giving my best to my students and extra time I spend on them feels mostly worthwhile.

However, whenever there is chat about teaching, the general feeling seems to be very negative. I'm just wondering where this seems to come from? Is it the classic 'horrible teacher' stereotype we see on TV etc.? Or is it a leftover from some of our own school days?

I suppose it's not really AIBU, more of a wondering where this issue comes from and if public view can ever be shifted?

www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4416575-To-think-I-am-not-at-all-cut-out-for-teaching?flipped=1

www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4015949-To-just-make-a-point-about-how-hard-teachers-work

www.mumsnet.com/talk/the_staffroom/4432593-should-teaching-be-this-hard

www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4506110-Is-teaching-really-that-bad

www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3084898-To-think-its-really-hard-to-be-a-good-teacher-and-good-mum

www.mumsnet.com/talk/going_back_to_work/915322-Going-back-to-teaching-job-worried

www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4397555-Tell-Me-What-It-s-really-Like-To-Be-A-Teacher

www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/1936133-to-desperately-want-to-leave-my-job-on-verge-of-walking-out-because-of-this

www.mumsnet.com/talk/the_staffroom/3652225-Teaching-as-a-new-career

I don't understand why reference is made to unpaid holidays. Like many professions, teachers are paid a salary. An annual amount which it is deemed the role should be paid. Even if a contract says 195 days, you have still agreed to an annual sum for the role, with 13 weeks holiday. That annual fee is paid over 12 months as part of the package, which includes a good pension. When people say, 'oh teachers get so much holiday', surely the response is, 'well yes, that's part of our employment package.' Not, 'but we don't get paid for it.' It is a perk of the job to have the extra time compared to other jobs and is simply part of the terms of employment. No need to discuss what is paid or unpaid.

It’s because we often get ‘advised’ by people who don’t understand our contracts about how we should be spending that non-paid out of term time.

@Whadda

I dont understand your point about the first thread. Where has a teacher said they work harder than anyone else? The only thing I can see is a person saying being a cover supervisor was the hardest job they'd done.

I’ve just loooked at the first three of those OPs. None of which mentioned other professions except to acknowledge that others work hard too!

2nd career teacher here (left private sector and trained to teach).
If you care about your students (and I genuinely believe the overwhelming majority of teachers do) then, yes, the job is very, very hard because you end up choosing to work long hours and put in every ounce of energy you have. But, every cliche you hear about it being rewarding is true on the back of that hard work.
My colleagues and I all feel this way about it too. We’re all very passionate about doing whatever we can to improve outcomes and experiences for the children and families of our very challenging school. We experience every emotion in the book throughout every week, and it’s draining and energising all at the same time.
I don’t see how anyone outside of it can really appreciate what it’s like, so it seems par for the course that some people would laud our efforts whilst others are reductive or derisory about us. Doesn’t change the way I feel about what I do.

TLDR: Some people moan about teachers, others don’t; same as with any other job. Doesn’t matter really.

I think teachers have it pretty good but because many go into teaching straight from university they don't realise it. Compared to the private sector it isn't that hard. My best friend is a teacher, earns about 48k, works 8 to 4.30pm, yes she has marking in the evening but generally about an hour's work. This month she is in Wales with her family for 2 weeks then off to France for 2 weeks before school starts again.

I don't know any private sector job that would allow a month holiday in one go every year, and that's without the Easter and Christmas breaks. She told me she has to work maybe a week in each holiday doing lesson plans etc. Her pension is also going to be double what mine is. She is a brilliant teacher and gets high grades so she's not slacking and is at a standard comp.

Nobody should be abused on MN but I think some people get tired of the constant moaning by teachers about how hard their life is. And before anyone says if it's that good why don't you do it, the answer is I don't realy like kids so teaching at a school is not for me.

And to add, I felt the same way about my old role as a commodities trader, except it a bottom line that I was passionate about improving then.
Nowadays profit doesn’t personally concern me, but I don’t think what I do now is any more worthy or important than what I did then; it’s just different.

I like the teachers that I know in real life including most of my children's teachers.

Teachers on the internet, however. They think they are the only people with a stressful job and the constant moaning.... They really fucked a lot of parents off during covid.

The getting paid for holiday thing seems like semantics/irrelevant. You still earn the same amount of money over the full year.

I'm self-employed, I also 'don't get paid for holiday' and don't get sick pay, or maternity leave - but that's why my rate is higher on the days I do work. Because it then balances out. Same with teachers. It's all irrelevant because either way you get the same amount of money and you get time off built into your year...

I love teachers - lots of my closest friends are teachers (really). The good teachers my dc encountered during their schooling (both finished now) were incredible and really inspiring and had such a positive, lasting impact on their young minds.

Any negative feeling I have towards teachers are borne of the endless, literally endless, moaning threads on Mumsnet from teachers. I have also been on countless threads which were NOT about teaching or teachers which have been completely hijacked by them for some reason.

It's bizarre.

Teachers are paid for holidays just like anyone else on a salary. Saying otherwise is just going to wind people up for no good reason. When I had 43 days holiday in a public sector role (including bank holidays) I didn't go around saying it was unpaid. So teachers, if you want to improve the image of teachers definitely don't keep saying that your holidays are unpaid because that's inflammatory. Just say that you enjoy the long holidays but find that you do need to work some of them due to heavy workload (if that's true for you). Don't say you work hard for it because that implies others do not work hard for their measly 6 weeks of holiday. Don't say you work lots of extra hours at home - lots of others do too.

The truth is that teachers do get long holidays compared to most UK workers and that is a very real and evident upside of the job. Sadly there also seem to be a lot of downsides as is obvious from how many leave the profession.

The profession clearly needs an overhaul. Why doesn't your union Publish some surveys on the real reasons people are leaving the job and concentrate on raising the profile of these. Is it the salaries? Is it the weekend working? Is it the bureaucracy? Is it the level of monitoring? Lack of support from other professionals eg social workers?

Stuck with expensive holidays like all the parents are too 🤷🏻‍♀️

But don't have to shell out for equalled expensive holiday clubs for their children.

I think there is some irritation at schools closing at the drop of a hat all the time too.

I think most teachers are great. But some are also annoying. You know. Like all people in general 🤷🏻‍♀️

And that fucking "but I don't get paid for the holidays" thing. See it's already reared it's head on here. Wtf is that all about?

Yep

My 13 year old son is desperate to become a teacher, because his English teacher nutures his love of learning. I couldn't appreciate the support our local academy has given him. Hes had ongoing health issues since he was 3 so for him to he actively joining after school academic clubs is amazing. I think teachers deserve a damn site more then they get and half of the things parents moan about, have nothing to do with the teachers and more to do with government/management

And if you really did not get paid for holidays, then accept your pay is good for what is a 9 months of the year job. Average teacher salary is about £37 - £38k, so equivalent to £46,500 FTE, that is not a low salary.

I don't understand it either, OP. YANBU

I'd rather drill my own teeth than look after 32 children of any age for five hours a day. Teachers are, for the most part, brilliant, and earn every moment of their holidays - an opinion reinforced during lockdown/home schooling.

its weird. This thread has only been on a few hours. It will spend all day near the top with people literally frothing with hatred about teachers, attempting to post receipts. People will bitch about teachers and all the free time they get yet non teachers are attracted to these threads like moths to a flame. With seemingly loads of free time to teacher bash. It should be an mn law actually.

Agree with this. When I was school support staff I was on a 39 week contract as most are. The teachers were on 52 week contracts.

I did have one or two truly wonderful teachers over my many years at school but the vast majority were pretty awful, made my life miserable and I hated school. If that's a typical school experience then I wouldn't be surprised to hear that teachers are generally disliked. Maybe that isn't teachers' fault but maybe it is, idk.

The good teachers really do change your life but so too do the bad ones. There were definitely a whole lot more bad ones in my school experience and the same for most of the adults I have asked about their school days. Maybe my experience is representative or maybe not.

I think people are more entitled in general and more inclined to try to transfer responsibility from themselves or their children to someone else when something goes wrong. Unfortunately teachers are an easy target for this.

There is another thread at the moment where someone has asked is it normal that teachers have to fund/beg for free resources for their classroom. Wonder how many other professions pay to resource their work place.

Exactly. Either they get very long holidays or they get paid a very decent salary - can't be neither (though can be both!).

...and if they really get 28 days paid holiday from a 39 week year, then they have pro rata 37 days paid holiday!

The thing is, the comments I read on MN about the reality of teaching don't match with the experiences of the many teachers I know. On here it seems unanimous that all teachers work until late at night everyday, work weekends, work holidays etc.

Several of my close family members and best friends are teachers of all kinds, primary, secondary, state, private, head of department or not etc, and not one of them works that much. In fact, when meeting for dinner or social events etc. it is usually teacher friends and family who are the most flexible and available, and those in other jobs that struggle to get out of work on time to make a 8 o'clock reservation etc.

I'm sure teachers do work hard but they also don't ever seem to see the upsides of their role, which you would think presumably was why they went into it in the first place.