Wondering why there's so much hate for teachers?

[Nannyogg134]

I've just been reading some responses to another thread concerning teachers and working over summer and there's a real mix of thoughts. I know that everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but I'm always very taken back by the amount of negative comments regarding teachers (especially regarding workload and school holidays.)

I've taught in a state secondary school for almost 13 years and I came to the job after working in a care home for a few years. There are pros and cons; the school holidays are great (and yes, they are unpaid- teachers are paid per day of their contract, this is term time only, the wage is delivered over 12 monthly payments for ease of life.) However, there is no flexibility, so I rarely see my own children in sport's day, nativities, or even on parent's evening (if it clashes with something at my school.) Overall, I feel very passionately about giving my best to my students and extra time I spend on them feels mostly worthwhile.

However, whenever there is chat about teaching, the general feeling seems to be very negative. I'm just wondering where this seems to come from? Is it the classic 'horrible teacher' stereotype we see on TV etc.? Or is it a leftover from some of our own school days?

I suppose it's not really AIBU, more of a wondering where this issue comes from and if public view can ever be shifted?

I think people see the short school days and assume teachers work 9-3, then add in all the holidays, but they don’t see what teachers actually work and how teachers are stuck with expensive holidays.

I think teachers on the whole are amazing and do a great job. There will always be a few who are grumpy should probably consider a different job etc.

however the constant moaning on mumsnet from teachers is very tiring. As was the moaning during return to teaching after lockdown. I heard a very few teachers say horrible things around that time.

OP, in the last week I've seen multiple abusive posts aimed at disabled children and refugees. So I don't think it's just teachers.

I’m not in the UK and don’t have children so MN is probably my only time interaction with UK teachers so I think it’s fair to say I don’t have any skin in the game.

That said, based on some of the things I’ve seen on MN over the years, British teachers often seem to be of a certain mindset I haven’t seen elsewhere.

I genuinely think there could be a thread on here that starts with-
“I’m a brain surgeon and today I did 24 hours of surgery on 4 premature babies while standing up in a dust camp in a third world country, using nothing but my bare hands and a butter knife”

and within five responses you’d have-

“Well, try being a teacher and then you’ll understand hard work!”

I see some teachers (I'm a retired one) still believe the old 'teachers aren't paid for their holidays' chestnut.

Yes, you ARE. You're salaried and it is NOT a pro-rata salary.

There's a lot of hate in this forum, sadly.

Teachers, nurses, social workers, step mothers, and others all get abuse here from some posters. It gives some a bizarre thrill to be unplesant.

I think the only experience of teachers is from their own perspective from when they were at at school. They think they arrive teach lessons and go home. At 3pm.

Obviously that's not the case. The endless meetings and admin work on top of planning, marking and assessment
They think they have long holidays which are paid

If I'm honest I thought the same until I did it myself. I'm out of it now. Genuinely couldn't take the stress and long hours anymore

I think it is perceived that they have it easy and when people say that, teachers rightly so get defensive and try to explain. Then people call them for moaning when in fact they were doing were correcting people who were ignorant about their job. People who have 1 bad experience apply it to all teachers and then name call them all because they have little logic to just say they were disgruntled by one and want it to look worse than it really is. People think they know a teacher's job because they once went to school when in fact they know very little. Some of it is jealousy that they get the holidays.

Honestly, a little of it comes from nit-picking over teachers not getting paid for holidays. To all intents and purposes, they do! Leave aside supply work, yes your contract is paid over 12 months for ease and technically there’s no pay for those weeks. But the reality is that you have an annual salary.
I have about 20 teacher friends (you make one, you tend to gain others in the same profession!) and if they was a salary discussion all would say they got “£x per year” and not start some pedantic stuff about “£x per 9 months”.

I think the perception issue is for several reasons.

It’s a profession that almost everyone thinks they know about - they were at school, they have children at school.
Also people think they know what a teacher does. And there are a lot of teachers. So most people have some experience.
I’m an Operations Manager. Nobody ever said, “I have about 20 OM friends”. And nobody thinks they know what I do, from my job title. So I think that’s why people are so opinionated about teachers but not about other jobs, like mine.

Why that opinion is negative? I think most of us have experienced good and bad teachers. Receiving end, or for our children. I have. That doesn’t make me think the whole profession is bad! Far from it! But I think most people have seen bad teaching.

I do think a lot of it comes down to the sheer numbers that people know though - or, not even know, but see online for example. On MN, nobody is starting threads about the Operations Managers 😉

I do think there’s a higher amount of complaining by teachers than many other jobs… but the complaints are justified. It’s a hard job. But overall - it’s a combination of volume and exposure.

Yes i agree my sister was a teacher for 25 years and she was at school most mornings before 8 and didn't leave until after 5 pm she also did a lot of planning in the evenings and at weekends ,and spent half the school holidays in school doing preparation, so I have some insight into teaching, she left last year and is now working in schools but in a different capacity whilst she's had to take a large pay drop she's a lot happier

MN teachers make out that our children are toxic, especially since covid-19....
The insistence that school isn't childcare. I agree, it isn't. BUT without children at school from 9-3 most parents wouldn't be able to work. So you have to agree that there is an element of childcare involved. Even for teachers who send their DC to school...
I don't like teachers banging on about how much they do and how hard it is ... it really is like any other job with good and bad points. Some have crap wages, shitty hours or unrealistic expectations.

But thats MN keyboard worriers for you.

Plus the teaching my DC received at primary level was atrocious.

Oh OP, why have you started a thread on this. I’m on the other thread too, though I’ve stepped away now. It’s just going to rile people up on both sides.

On the complaining…
I’m in the private sector, generally if a role doesn’t suit you - you move, company or role. So you don’t long term complain about being an accounts receivable clerk, for example - you move.

My perception - which I’m happy to be told is wrong! - is that there’s a really high drop out rate in the first couple of years, but after that, there’s less movement out of teaching than other private sector roles. So it’s those long term teachers who are vocally complaining in person, on line. And those complaints are justified. But the volume of voices is high, because so many stay put. You don’t get the critical mass of A/R Clerks explaining their woes - because the change jobs! And also don’t have the same group identity that you have as “teachers”.

Because everybody feels sufficiently qualified to hold forth about teachers because they went to school.

Because parents (kind of understandably) only see things from the point of view of their own child.

Because many parents see school primarily as childcare and get cross when anything to do with school inconveniences them.

Because people are jealous of teachers' long holidays (even if they know full well that the holidays wouldn't be enough to persuade them to be a teacher).

Because many parents actually don't like the idea of anyone but them telling their child what to do or telling them off.

Because they believe teachers think teaching is the hardest, or the only hard job in the world (not remotely true).

Because people are enraged that there are some bad or mediocre teachers (in spite of the fact that there are bad or mediocre people in all jobs).

Oh and because many people choose to believe that normal classroom teachers are somehow responsible for all the schools-related decisions and policies made by the government, Ofsted and headteachers.

I'm sure there are more...

It is a pro rata salary. Teachers get the same number of paid holiday as everyone else. We get paid, if you are full time, for working 195 days in the year, with then the same number if paid holiday days as everyone else.

I totally disagree with anyone who thinks that teachers have it easy.

There is no professional I respect more than a good teacher but why should we pretend that every single teacher is perfect and above reproach?

Why would we take our ideas of teachers from television? It's not as if we all educated at home. I still remember the good and bad teachers I had in school, just as I remember some of the excellent and appalling teachers my dd had.

I agree with lots of pp here - but also think that, as a teacher who was a career changer, teachers sometimes don’t help themselves by assuming that every other profession has Uber-flexibility and thus better working conditions. It isn’t the case and creates a bit of a race to the bottom

This. It's the constant rhetoric that only teachers know hard work and work harder than anyone else which is really annoying. I have no doubt it's very hard work and the hours are fairly long during term time but it's not longer and harder than many other jobs and as per the thread yesterday, even if teachers do a bit of work in the holidays to all intents and purposes they get way more holiday than anyone in a similar professional job.

Teachers do tend to moan a lot in my experience. A lot should have changed job years ago, but get stuck teaching & become bitter about it. It is a hard job. I’ve done it, but no one forces anyone to teach!

I have loads of respect for teachers and wouldn’t slag them off.. however the constant moaning from some vocal teachers does grate sometimes. It feels like there’s no awareness that lots of people work long hours, and for a lot less money and holidays.

I dont think people hate teachers.

Some teachers don't do themselves any favours.

Things like they don't get a day off or holidays or aren't paid for holidays etc

Plus some teachers attitudes to parents and kids aren't that great.

Then there's the whole teaching union response to covid.

People can disagree with a lot of what teachers say without hating teachers

Most of them do a great job. It's not always an easy one either

Teachers sometimes tell them the truth about their little angels and geniuses.

I think this is a good summary.

MN is a parenting site. Children go to school. Everyone will have an opinion on teachers one way or another.

There are some fab teachers on MN who are very helpful on the education boards. Reading AIBUs on teachers must make them wonder why they bother sometimes.

What??
Where?!

Not doubting you OP - just appalled

I'm married to a teacher so no hate here. On MN teachers seem to dominate threads, moaning they work harder than anyone ever lived. I work for one of the big 4 and working like a dog is the default position (and no I don't earn that much) so given the additional holidays it always sounds like an echo chamber complaint. The private sector is no picnic either.

Oh and my husband has never worked a day in the holidays and the vast amount of his colleagues don't either other than being paid extra to mark exam papers. Which is obviously a choice and not mandatory.