Wondering why there's so much hate for teachers?

[Nannyogg134]

I've just been reading some responses to another thread concerning teachers and working over summer and there's a real mix of thoughts. I know that everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but I'm always very taken back by the amount of negative comments regarding teachers (especially regarding workload and school holidays.)

I've taught in a state secondary school for almost 13 years and I came to the job after working in a care home for a few years. There are pros and cons; the school holidays are great (and yes, they are unpaid- teachers are paid per day of their contract, this is term time only, the wage is delivered over 12 monthly payments for ease of life.) However, there is no flexibility, so I rarely see my own children in sport's day, nativities, or even on parent's evening (if it clashes with something at my school.) Overall, I feel very passionately about giving my best to my students and extra time I spend on them feels mostly worthwhile.

However, whenever there is chat about teaching, the general feeling seems to be very negative. I'm just wondering where this seems to come from? Is it the classic 'horrible teacher' stereotype we see on TV etc.? Or is it a leftover from some of our own school days?

I suppose it's not really AIBU, more of a wondering where this issue comes from and if public view can ever be shifted?

No we get paid for the 195 days we work plus 5.6 weeks annual leave like everyone else.

As a teacher, the rubbish teachers also annoy me! They make my job much harder so I completely empathise with parents/carers when they have to work closely with a teacher that is disorganised or poor at communication for example. I tend to find I moan more about my colleagues than I do about the career itself because it is such a team-working job (even though from the outside it may look like teaching is a very solo, independent type of working).

1 . In my experience many parents end up somehow reprising/reliving patterns of behaviour from their own schooldays when it comes to dealing with teachers/schools.

2 . The Tories and right wing press have done a great job of reframing teaching (and nursing) as some sort of charitable endeavour of service to the nation and painting teachers (and nurses) as greedy and ungrateful for having the temerity to ask for better pay and working conditions.

I think @testina has it nailed on the salary point!

I have a lot of friends who are teachers and have just past the annual flurry of Facebook posts about how exhausted they are working to end of term and then the daily posts about all the fun things they are doing and their extended trips away.

The issue that I always have is that I don't know anyone who does not have to work hard! Many, many of us in a range of jobs and professions work hard and for long hours. Even when we are on leave, we are either dealing with work matters or have worked so hard to get ahead enough to take a week off that we go on leave exhausted, safe in the knowledge that work has accumulated while we are away.

Teachers really do not have that. I don't resent them that luxury, it is the fact they many don't appreciate that that irks me!

I have parent teacher who did nothing but that as their job.

the issues why people don’t like them are not linked to mumsnet things like

constant moaning

having a tenure based pay scale and then complaining they don’t get a enough of a pay rise in addition to this

assume if you work in the private sector you just get promotions and also not understanding that unions are not as strong in other sectors

constantly moaning about doing their own admin, when in private sector it would just been seen as part of your job.

treating TAs as their own personal PAs and wondering why the TAs seem less then happy

complaining it’s the hardest job in the world and while they pay their taxes meantion to a teacher that are a net detractor not contributor of tax and watch them go off the rails

Teacher politics is like being back on the playground

This literally doesn't happen.

Some of us were at school in the days where teachers could do what they liked, and did. I have a few traumatic memories of teachers, including being assaulted by one. Yes there were good teachers too, but the bad ones can, and did, a lot of damage. Teachers are in a position of great power, and some of them abuse it.

I'm not sure what part of the UK you are from but teachers here are paid for 40 days holiday. That doesn't equate to the full amount so, yes, some days of the holidays are unpaid. I imagine it is probably the same UK wide.

My work accumulates during the school holidays if I don’t keep on top of it. I agree that it is annoying that many don’t appreciate that regardless of what profession they themselves are in.

If you are a retired teacher then presumably you worked before the existence of supply agencies. How teaching was paid back then made it very clear that it is, in effect but not advertised as such, a pro rata salary. I still have the supply rate letter from my county in some folder somewhere so I'm not making it up.

If you worked a days supply when I started teaching you were paid 1/195 of the full salary because that's how many days we are employed for. If you worked just a month you would take home more than a full time teacher on the same pay scale. If you worked a full year, obviously not being able to work the holidays as a supply teacher, then you would earn the same because the full time teachers pay is spread out over the year.

Teachers and TAs in my son's school are exceptional. No teacher-bashing in my corner, OP. Tough but vitally important job....

The last time I sold my house I had to take my own photos!

also not understanding that unions are not as strong in other sectors

I think there is actually a lot of envy towards the teaching profession's ability to unionise and demand fair treatment which leads to people not liking teachers.

Ex teacher here. I agree some teachers come on here moaning that they work harder than anyone else but I think,part of the problem is that you could work 24 hrs a day and there would still be more you could do.Some heads’ expectations are ridiculous and the climate seems to be that in dealing with truly awful behaviour you often get no back up and criticism from parents.

Salaries are not great unless you take on additional responsibilities, certainly not in comparison to law, accountancy etc and other professionally qualified jobs. There’s obviously a problem in teaching as people are leaving not long after qualifying and retiring early. Recruitment in some areas is also a problem.

I don't think it's true at all the teachers work 'harder' than other professions. But it is true that the work is very time-bound. For example, you have several deadlines a day to be met and there's not really much room not to. And then there's the admin side, which can often be very time-bound too. I've taught for 15 years. Had some time out for an office based job for a year and honestly could not believe how slow everything moved.
The reason for teacher bashing is that everyone has gone to school so obviously think they know best. We do have good conditions but it's clearly difficult to understand what goes on. I honestly couldn't work at the slow pace of the office so went back to the classroom and I love it.

I feel the same way about nursing. It really gets to me when I’ve had a tough shift and then read comments making sweeping generalisations. People hold really strong opinions on public sector workers and most of the time it’s ill informed, inaccurate and sometimes very offensive.

I found it eye opening to speak to American teachers who also ‘don’t get paid for holidays’ so supplement their income with another job over summer. I’ve never heard of U.K. teachers doing this although presumably there must be some out there. The six teachers in my friendship group certainly don’t - they have a lovely summer with their families mostly!

I don’t think teachers are hated - I just think people feel like they understand the job better than most as everyone has had experience in schools. Doesn’t mean they know what they’re talking about or see the work that happens outside of 8.50-3.30

These days though, it seems almost all professional roles require additional work outside hours. Mine certainly does.

I think it's because several things teachers regularly say just aren't true.

They have more stressful jobs than people in the private sector - have you ever done a stressful job in the private sector?

They're poorly paid. Not well paid but it balances out. A teacher's pension is worth £500k - £1 million whereas the average pension pot in the private sector is £50k.

They have less flexibility than others - you do realise many people only get 4-5 weeks holiday per year.

Yes it's a tough job, but so are loads of others.

So to summarise, it's not teachers themselves but the amount of moaning!

In my experience it goes like this:

non-teacher: Teachers get paid for their summer holidays and yet I know loads of teachers who don’t do any work during the summer holidays

teacher: Actually we don’t get paid for all the school holidays and we do do some work outside of term time

non-teacher: Teachers are always moaning and nit-picking, why don’t you just quit if you don’t like it. Why do you think nobody else has to work hard?

Over and over.

Exactly. Those making the "we aren't paid for the holidays" argument even though they are salaried and the pay is distributed through the full year are effectively saying that salaried teachers only work part time if you look at the average hours through the year. The FTE salaries don't look so bad in that context.

Obviously that doesn't apply to those who are paid by the hour, or by the day, such as those working in supply.

I think teachers do have it tough - I know A LOT of teachers, most of which were the full A* students at school, with excellent degrees and extremely conscientious etc. The majority have quit their jobs in the last 3 years as the amount of pressure and stress (and with every single one of them, serious issues with parents and PTA committees etc!) and now do something different, though usually still working with children in some capacity.

However, to caveat that, a lot of my friends and family members have had horrendous experiences with their children with extremely poor teaching, even at the top state schools and extortionately expensive private schools too. I think the training that teachers get is very poor, and doesn't necessarily prepare them very well to a) teach their subject well enough and b) cope with the amount of work that needs to be done.

Every single person I know with children in school (even with kids aged 4 in reception, and even one who is paying about £15K a year for private school) is paying for private tuition for their child. Every. Single. One.
It's also the route I'm taking with my children as the general standard of teaching just isn't working. Maybe class sizes are just too big?

Teachers are paid for 1,265 contracted hours a year, over 195 days. So at £26,000 ish a new teacher earns about £20 an hour. However most teachers work many more hours during term time so that is a maximum. Equivalent roles on £20 an hour equates to £36,000 for a 35 hour week.
Just as a comparison.
Reading some of the comments I really don't understand why people send their kids to school as teachers as so useless. And lazy. And moaning.

I think mumsnet teachers are a bad representation of teachers.

Comments like not being able to go to the toilet when you want to, I've worked in several minimum wage zero-hour jobs and unable to just go to the toilet whenever I fancy. None of it is special to teachers.

Totally agree with this.

I think teachers moan so much more than ANY other profession. It gets peoples backs up sometimes.

I saw a Facebook post last year where someone was musing about whether it would be better to spread terms/holidays over the year and maybe go back to school in august. One of my acquaintances (teacher) was up in arms about it. "I CANNOT be expected to work on August, with NO air conditioning, it's inhumane" etc etc
Millions of people go to work in August in non air conditioned work places But teachers couldn't possibly