Wondering why there's so much hate for teachers?

[Nannyogg134]

I've just been reading some responses to another thread concerning teachers and working over summer and there's a real mix of thoughts. I know that everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but I'm always very taken back by the amount of negative comments regarding teachers (especially regarding workload and school holidays.)

I've taught in a state secondary school for almost 13 years and I came to the job after working in a care home for a few years. There are pros and cons; the school holidays are great (and yes, they are unpaid- teachers are paid per day of their contract, this is term time only, the wage is delivered over 12 monthly payments for ease of life.) However, there is no flexibility, so I rarely see my own children in sport's day, nativities, or even on parent's evening (if it clashes with something at my school.) Overall, I feel very passionately about giving my best to my students and extra time I spend on them feels mostly worthwhile.

However, whenever there is chat about teaching, the general feeling seems to be very negative. I'm just wondering where this seems to come from? Is it the classic 'horrible teacher' stereotype we see on TV etc.? Or is it a leftover from some of our own school days?

I suppose it's not really AIBU, more of a wondering where this issue comes from and if public view can ever be shifted?

@ThighMistress you do realise quite a high proportion of teachers work part-time (and obviously it is the school holidays at the moment)

Teachers do seem to get it most in the neck on here compared to many professions. Your comment about teachers posting on here and rarely being at work. Seen that levelled at teachers quite often on here but not so much at other workers.

Due to cuts with many services schools are much more than places of education now, and teachers are much more involved with welfare of pupils. I think the frustration of some parents who can’t access services for their DC take out their frustration on the schools (not saying some schools need to do better). But with budgets being cut more and staff shortages this is only going to get worse and the pressure on teachers will grow

@Fairislefandango

I've heard plenty teachers say (it'd even on this thread) tell me one other job where you have to do xyz!!!

Like it honestly hasn't occurred to them teaching isn't the only stressful job.

And there's another example

Teachers get it more in the neck

No they don't.

It's rather a big jump to assume teachers think they have the only stressful job when asking for another job that has a certain example of a condition the same as teaching.

@Sherrystrull

No its not.

That's exactly the point being made

It really isn't.

For example,
Tell me another job where you're in a small windowless room with 30+ children all day every day?

That's doesn't mean it's the most stressful job. It's asking for examples of other jobs that share similar conditions.

You have made assumptions.

No we aren't
My contract which is the same as all other permanent teachers has 4 weeks paid holiday and the money salaried over the year.

Which teachers are ever in a small windowless room with 30 + children all day

There you (general teacher) go again with the hyperbole trying to make out teachers are worse off than anyone

You're just proving the point.

And hcp work all day in wards with 30 + sick pts that are literally hotter than the sun with windows that don't open. In ppe.

So I'll say hcp.

"I agree that a significant number of moaners are on MN and strangely they never seem to be at work…."
Well, here's an idea: perhaps they're part-time.

"Also during the height of Covid there were “placed” agitators who started innumerable threads."
That's quite an allegation and I'd like to know your evidence for that. But whilst we're casting aspersions, I'd say it was more likely that organisations such as UsforThem were rife on these boards.

"I see some teachers (I'm a retired one) still believe the old 'teachers aren't paid for their holidays' chestnut"
Yet another person who's confused with the notion of being paid FOR their holidays with being paid IN the holidays.

Which teachers are ever in a small windowless room with 30 +children all day

My room had windows but they don’t open so the effect is much the same. I had 31 in my class. The children ate in there with me during Covid bubbles, so that counts as ‘all day’.

You should try teaching in some of our most deprived communities (and some of our richer ones too), and then perhaps a discussion about how to manage that responsibility would be fruitful rather than suggesting we can't possibly be bogged down because we don't work 14 hours a day or manage life and death continually? And maybe have a little think about aspects of the job you never see but which are done anyway.

All jobs have parts, everybody else doesn’t see from the outside! So what?
I am sure every doctor or social worker in the UK could write reams about difficult parts of their jobs, like the bureaucracy, staff shortages, the pressure to discharge people, when they know there is something seriously wrong with them, people dying….

We don’t see zillions of threads say by social workers or doctors, moaning about how hard it is processing what their clients/patients have to deal with all day!

@Topgub they do on here. MN have had to step in many times to delete threads due to teacher bashing over the last few years. Have not seen the same vitriol at that level aimed at any other particular profession. Yes other threads/posts are deleted, and yes there is vitriol aimed at other professions, but not at that level.

So much so, that some posts started by education staff do not appear on active, so they have a safe space to post. Don’t think that happens with other professions on here

@Shinyandnew1

And you never took them outside? No outside learning? No gym?

They never had a break for play time outside?

That seems quite poor

And bubbles are no longer a thing. Haven't been for a while

Its in no way standard. Why exaggerate and pretend it is?

Regardless there are other jobs where staff are inside with lots of people with no windows

So what?

@TheSummerPalace a social worker has an idea what their job will involve. Over the last few years a teacher’s job is taking on more and more responsibilities akin to a social worker etc due to cut backs in other services

@toomuchlaundry

Have not seen the same vitriol at that level aimed at any other particular profession

You're not looking hard enough.

Or your bias means you see vitriol where there is only disagreement and criticism

I've seen loads of threads with lots of vitriol for nhs staff and other public sector staff

And your post is exactly why people find teachers irritating. The tone of self righteous indignation, the unnecessary hyperbole, the pointless whataboutery.

I spent over a year working as a TA and Cover Supervisor in one of the most deprived secondary schools in our county. I still have the eyebrow scar where I was hit in the face with a chair. But I would still never delude myself it was anywhere near as stressful or as demanding as being an A&E consultant.

And the majority of teachers I worked with there merely provided crowd control. Certainly no one was bringing in homemade food for the kids or buying them warm clothing.

I would still never delude myself it
was anywhere near as stressful or as demanding as being an A&E consultant

Where exactly did I say that it's as stressful as an A&E consultant? Why does the A&E consultant get to say they find their job demanding but a teacher can't say they are finding their work environment stressful?

Certainly no one was bringing in homemade food for the kids or buying them warm clothing

Then maybe you needed to be paying a bit more attention to what was going on around you. Or are you suggesting that any teacher who has managed a disclosure or put their hand in their own pocket is just lying about it?

And again, why with the righteousness indignation and trying to put words in my mouth? Can't you see this is exactly the attitude that annoys people?

Where have I said that all teachers are lying? All I know from my experience of working closely with many teachers is that none of them ever brought food in for children or warm clothing. Which is precisely what I said No hyperbole or righteous flailing about.

So do they have safe spaces to post on MN then @Topgub?

I'm not a teacher by the way

@toomuchlaundry

The idea that teachers need safe spaces to post is hilarious

I've no idea if hcp have safe spaces on mn.

But if they don't id imagine it's because of the difference in attitudes rather than lack of 'vitriol'

MN don't tend to delete whole threads due to criticism or different attitudes, discussions are allowed. They delete them when not in the spirit of the site. Many threads had to be deleted in respect of teachers as the posters originating them were simply out to get at teachers.

When schools were in bubbles it was quite common for teachers to be stuck in the classroom pretty much all day with the same set of pupils, only being allowed out for a loo break and a bit of break time (break times were staggered and so shorter as segregating children in the playground) Indoor PE didn't happen in many schools. In Primaries children were quite often eating lunch in the classrooms so as not to mix in the hall, so teacher would have to sit in with them. Many classrooms don't have opening windows or ventilation systems. Many children, especially the younger ones, are not vaccinated

You clearly and wilfully are ignoring my point. How is discussing working conditions making out teachers are worse than other peoples? I haven't said that.

And your post is exactly why people find teachers irritating. The tone of self righteous indignation, the unnecessary hyperbole, the pointless whataboutery.

@peaceandove That was what irritated me so much about that post!

@Sherrystrull

Clearly I have missed the point because I dont understand the point of posting irrelevant hyperbole about teaching

What is the point of that?

@toomuchlaundry

So what?

"The idea that teachers need safe spaces to post is hilarious"

Only hilarious if you're someone who finds bullying amusing.

But the 'safe space' on MN is largely obsolete now. Many have decamped elsewhere.