Wondering why there's so much hate for teachers?

[Nannyogg134]

I've just been reading some responses to another thread concerning teachers and working over summer and there's a real mix of thoughts. I know that everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but I'm always very taken back by the amount of negative comments regarding teachers (especially regarding workload and school holidays.)

I've taught in a state secondary school for almost 13 years and I came to the job after working in a care home for a few years. There are pros and cons; the school holidays are great (and yes, they are unpaid- teachers are paid per day of their contract, this is term time only, the wage is delivered over 12 monthly payments for ease of life.) However, there is no flexibility, so I rarely see my own children in sport's day, nativities, or even on parent's evening (if it clashes with something at my school.) Overall, I feel very passionately about giving my best to my students and extra time I spend on them feels mostly worthwhile.

However, whenever there is chat about teaching, the general feeling seems to be very negative. I'm just wondering where this seems to come from? Is it the classic 'horrible teacher' stereotype we see on TV etc.? Or is it a leftover from some of our own school days?

I suppose it's not really AIBU, more of a wondering where this issue comes from and if public view can ever be shifted?

@FrippEnos

I'm discussing my experience.

How odd to imply that only experiences on mumsnet are valid

At no point have I stated my opinion is more valid than anyone else's, although obviously I think mine is right. You think yours is. Thats fairly normal.

No one has brought anything new to the discussion.

No one has evidenced their opinion either. This is not a research paper. However if there's something in particular you would like evidence for I can try to find some for you?

How odd to imply that only experiences on mumsnet are valid

another twist how very you.

I am happy for you to believe in what you want. but seeing how this is now just a back and forth between you and me, I will let others see if they can pull the thread back on track.

A lot of our friends & family are teachers. Those who went into teaching straight from university are very much of the 'being a teacher is like working an 18 hour shift down an Alaskan salt mine. I worked 12 hours a day every, single day of every school holiday. No one can possibly comprehend how hard we work.' Yadda Yadda etc.

Those who had successful, professional careers before transfering into teaching openly admit they work less hours as teachers and the amount of work necessary during holidays is negligible. I would hazard this is because they have learned to work smart, rather than just hard.

A few years back, SIL who went straight into teaching from university was holding forth at how 'most days she was in school from 8.00 5.00pm and still had a good hour's worth of marking when she got home.' And she moaned at the crippling levels of responsibility she was struggling with. It kinda fell on deaf ears as she was holding forth to an A&E consultant (where it's literally life & death, every day) and DH & his two colleagues, who all run their own companies, work a 14 hour day as a matter of course and are responsible for the livelihoods of hundreds of staff. They very graciously managed to not laugh in SIL's face.

I realised I jumped in without answering the original OP, so here goes:

I don't think there is a huge swathe of hatred towards teachers. I think there was more of a general irritation towards them over the last couple of years, although that's been reducing since the kids have been back in school, and it was due to the reaction to the covid pandemic from the government, the largest teaching unions and some large and vocal groups of teachers on social media. There was an understandable backlash at a time when everyone was under a lot of stress an strain, and they were fearful, so things were exacerbated even further.

I'm not sure how to improve things without some big changes happening. My children's school have really worked hard to improve, so individual schools in the community putting the effort in have managed to do it. But there's no centralised approach at the moment so it's luck of the draw, and that's probably the biggest problem. I'm not sure how to solve that because the government offloaded with academies, who now aren't as answerable to the LEA, and instead they pushed parental choice, which just made a messy system even messier than it already was!

Whao, And she moaned at the crippling levels of responsibility she was struggling with. It kinda fell on deaf ears as she was holding forth to an A&E consultant (where it's literally life & death, every day) and DH & his two colleagues, who all run their own companies, work a 14 hour day as a matter of course

You mean nobody can complain about anything unless they are working more 14 hours a day?

A lot of people work extremely hard and in stressful situations. Teachers as a profession just seem to moan about it more than people in other lines of work.

Teachers, as a profession, are often accused of being work shy/lazy/part time more than people in other professions and object to this. This objection is then misinterpreted as moaning.

When I was at school, I hated teachers, especially the ones who wielded the cane like a manic ninja.
However, that was over forty years ago.
I think teachers are great because without them we wouldn't have an education.
The only thing that annoys me, and I suspect annoys a lot of other parents is that, following the summer holidays, the school is closed for an additional day for ' teacher training ' couldn't this be done during the six weeks holidays?
That said, I still think teachers are fab, especially the ones who try to teach rude and surly teenagers who would rather be anywhere but at school.
Can't people just appreciate the fact that this country offers free education rather than bashing those who try to deliver it.

The training is in the holidays, the 5 training days were taken out of teacher holidays by Baker and in no way have changed the number of days that pupils have ever been taught.

The first training day is used for all of the essential legal training that is required for the school to open and operate.

Of course. But FFS read the room first.

Maybe you could argue that people spending 14 hours a day running a business aren’t very good at delegating

Like nursing and most likely policing, teaching is a cornerstone of civilised society.

I was raised to have huge respect for teachers, and I do to this day. I don't envy tgem. There's huge, huge pressure and things are only getting more difficult.

They should be paid MORE to attract people to the profession in my opinion. And no, I'm not a teacher nor is anyone in my family.

But that’s just my point. You were not responding to the PP. What you said was just whataboutery. I don’t need it explaining why teachers would want to correct untruths about them, I can understand that thanks, believe me I’m in a misunderstood and disliked profession myself.

But teachers wanting to correct untruths about them doesn’t logically relate to the PPs point ie that a few teachers on mn talk bollocks and get people’s backs up. They are two totally separate things, and can both be true.

This is just classic internet wars though, you’ve decided I’m against you full stop so you’re not even bothering to read and understand my post properly. Please don’t bother to respond if it’s just going to be more bitching. I’m actually trying to be fair and analytical.

Yes at least education is still free. Let’s hope it stays that way and we don’t have a slow decay like other services

Not saying it was like this in all schools but at DCs school when they were running bubbles while the kids start and finishing times were staggered and all extra provisions put in, the TAs were floating back and forth between classes and teachers still mingling in the staff room.

tbe bubbles broke and while it wouldn’t have happened anyway it wasn’t well managed

Not at all I have decided that you were rude given the way you spoke to me telling me what I can and can't respond and given that I am dictated to about what I can say on a discussion forum despite many others not answering the question, I am the one getting the law laid down about what you, who thinks you are boss, tell me I can and can't do.

Nevermind please don't respond if it is more bitching. My mum taught me if someone is rude to you how about looking at how you spoke to them in the first place? Maybe start by not telling others what they can and can't say and learn how to debate. You are not trying to be fair, you are telling me what to do.

Can’t we just move on from the bloody covid thing?

it’s old news

I know several teachers who are allowed time off to go to their kids assemblies etc. I also know people who said they weren't into it as it is 'child friendly' and 'all the holidays'.

went into it

Yes at least education is still free. Let’s hope it stays that way and we don’t have a slow decay like other services

Seriously? Have you seen the numbers leaving the profession vs the numbers going into training?!

And she moaned at the crippling levels of responsibility she was struggling with. It kinda fell on deaf ears as she was holding forth to an A&E consultant (where it's literally life & death, every day) and DH & his two colleagues, who all run their own companies, work a 14 hour day as a matter of course

So anyone who works in A&E or who runs their own business, they can have 'crippling levels of responsibility' but we just laugh in the faces of teachers who are finding their responsibilities a bit much? I mean, it's not like teachers ever saved a child's life when abuse was disclosed, was it? Sat there for hours waiting for Social Services? Needing (non existent) profesdiknal support to help them process some of the conversations they have with children? Not the case that teachers lie awake ar 3am worrying about how members of their form might be managing over the summer? How X's mum is because last you heard her cancer was terminal? How Y is because violent dad got out of prison last week? How Z is because you know the arrival of mum's 4th baby just might push them over the edge financially? No teacher ever researched available support services and referred a family in need? Or washed a child's stinking uniform? Or listened when a child sobbed about the state of their dad's mental health? Nor did they ever put their hands in their own pockets to provide essentials for children they work with?

I mean, did anyone ask that teacher struggling with her work responsibilities if there was anything they could do to support her, or ask if she nees to talk, or suggest a night out? Or did the business owners and A&E consultant just assume because their jobs are more overtly stressful or their working days longer, they somehow deserve to be stressed and that no one else gets to be?

You should try teaching in some of our most deprived communities (and some of our richer ones too), and then perhaps a discussion about how to manage that responsibility would be fruitful rather than suggesting we can't possibly be bogged down because we don't work 14 hours a day or manage life and death continually? And maybe have a little think about aspects of the job you never see but which are done anyway.

It isn't everyone obviously. Just some people who clearly don't understand the demands of the job and think 6 weeks of holidays are cushy as are a 3pm finish They don't understand about the curriculum being updated, changes to lesson plans, endless meetings, the beauracracy, decking with challenging behaviour etc. Same with other professions such as doctor's receptionists, pharmacists who are quite often complained about on here All you can do is challenge those views on here.

*dealing even

I think what gets annoying is that some (not all) teachers seem to think no other jobs are stressful, involve out of ours working etc. their pay is often significantly better than us in the private sector with better pension, and yes for the amount of money per year, more holidays. I have several friends who are teachers and none of them moan in real life, one of them is deputy head of a 2000 student secondary school, hardly stress free, and he has always said even before promotion he was paid well for his work load better than his wife

Teaching employs a massive amount of people, so obviously some will be excellent, some terrible, some lazy and some will moan. I agree that a significant number of moaners are on MN and strangely they never seem to be at work….

Also during the height of covid there were “placed” agitators who started innumerable threads. I was dismayed at the higher education posters who were urging permanent online teaching “to help disabled students” . This gave me the - the nerve of pretending to care when in fact this would confine many disabled young people even more to the house when being honest what they wanted was to be able to wfh. One I clearly recall saying they could just upload the same lectures over and over - result!

I have encountered some wonderful teachers: you always remember them. The ones who moan all the time (not just some of the time!) should perhaps try another profession. In fact I would strongly discourage people from going straight into teaching and never working elsewhere.

I think what gets annoying is that some (not all) teachers seem to think no other jobs are stressful, involve out of ours working etc.

I doubt you'd find a single teacher who thinks that. Everybody knows that there are plenty of jobs which are stressful and involve long hours and overtime. Have you ever actually heard a teacher say "No jobs are stressful apart from teaching" or "No jobs other than teaching involve out-of-hours work"? No, thought not. I'm beginning to think that people just hear a teacher say "My job's stressful" and add on an assumed "...but nobody else's is" in their head.