to expect DH not to be annoyed by my anxieties and sadness?

[PinchOfPepper]

Hello mumsnetters. I need advice regarding men's emotional language.

Whenever I am worried or sad my husband seems to make weak attempts at comforting me/ convincing me that there's nothing to worry about, but if his words don't magically work by making my mood shift entirely he becomes instantly frustrated and complains that I worry too much.

Another frequent complaint of his that I shut him out when I am feeling like this, but how could I not? I get nothing resembling understanding or comfort from him. I don't feel safe exposing my feelings to him, because on top of whatever is worrying me, I then also have to handle his judgement of me and his suddenly sore feelings because a) I am excesively anxious and it's unreasonable (his words) and a burden to him (this is implied) and b) I isolate and don't rely on him enough (according to him, if I would, I wouldn't be so anxious). It's like me being sad makes him angry.

This attitude only leads to me isolating more from him—I literally hide from him when I am crying. I don't want or demand to be comforted if he's not capable of providing comfort, but I expect to at least be given space to process my feelings in peace without triggering his anger. The last thing I need when I am in that state is for someone else to make me feel inadequate. Is this unreasonable?

I just need to break out of this dynamics ASAP because it's hurting our relationship and our trust. I need to understand why he feels that way and how I am contributing to his feelings with my behaviour. Any tips?

FTR I don't want it to sound like I am having breakdowns all the time, but it is true that I am more anxious while he is more laid back. I think that the kind of stuff that makes me anxious or sad would make many women feel the same way (e.g. we got worrisome results during my last pregnancy ultrasound).

He's also a good, self-less, caring husband in general and we are very close. He has a bit of an anger issue, but that's for a different thread.

Thanks in advance for your input.

Why should friends carry this load?

Partners are supposed to help, to a point, after that, OP needs to do like rest of us responsible people: get a theraphist.

Have you tried telling him how he can be supportive in your eyes?

It doesn't sound like he is getting angry per se, but perhaps fustrated that he feels he is trying to be supportive but it's not working. In a relationship you always like to think you know your partner better than anyone and want to be the person to help pick them up when their down - if they constantly feel like whatever they do to be supportive is not working, it can be fustrating to try and keep supporting someone who you know you can't actually help.

I say this as my partner is you, he is very glass half empty and can be very synical. I am very glass half full and try my hardest to put a positive spin on whatever he offloads/ is worried about etc. I also feel myself getting fustrated sometimes when it seem's that everything is just consant doom and gloom, almost like their is no attempt from the other person to feel better or ease their issue - could your partner be feeling this?

I know you mentioned baout removing yourself and having space which is a very valid thing to do, maybe explain this too him. Something to bare in mind is when you are in an anxious state it will be obvious to your partner, and it creates an atmosphere in the home. If its an atmosphere that he has tried previously to help you with but has been proven he cannot provide you with the support your looking for, it means he simply has to live in this atmosphere until you've self soothed. Depending how often this is (only you truely know this) but if its a near daily experience, this can be very mentally draining to your partner.

The truth of the matter is only you can ease your anxieties, I am also an anxious person and are currently pregnant and have had my moments. But i am also careful to not project this and ruin what could be my one and only pregnancy for us both because my head is stuck in negative thoughts.

Because he's caring, he doesn't want to ignore you when you're down. But at the same time he can't understand why you get anxious about so many things, which is frustrating. So he tries his best and when he can't make it better, he feels frustrated with himself and you. Himself because he failed. You because you just followed his advice, you'd feel better (by his reasoning).
And frustration often comes out in anger.

I agree. @@PinchOfPepper you say He has a bit of an anger issue, but that's for a different thread. His anger issue can’t be separated from your anxiety and his response to it. Does his anger issue impact on your anxiety and your emotions?
Saying “a bit of” looks like a way of dismissing it as trivial. It isn’t.

Hi OP.

At the moment I am going through this issue with a friend. I have a very very anxious friend who is so lovely but I have made the decision to distance myself a bit as I am just so drained.

I am not unsympathetic to mental health issues - I am on Sertaline long term for OCD.

I understand that it is normal to be anxious about certain things but is your level of anxiety in the normal range? My friend will admit she is an anxious person but will still be of the opinion that the things she is so worried about are normal worries. It can be normal to worry about these things but not to the extent she does and I wonder are you the same?

For me as a friend it is hours and hours on the phone of me listening to these worries that most of us have had to deal with or similar at some stage - part of life. Solutions don't work, the only thing you can do is sympathize but it gets so so draining. I have been so supportive, literally giving hours and hours of my time for years now.

I have advised her that she needs to go on medication for anxiety - she doesn't agree as to her, her worries are legitimate. But once this worry is over, it will be something else and it will take her over. She went to a counsellor but it is not a counsellor she needs (another person to listen to her worries). She needs medication and cognitive behavior therapy but she won't see it.

I'll be honest, I realize now I could not be in a relationship with someone like that. It is so so draining and people like this are self absorbed without seeing it as they are so wrapped up in their own head/worries. It is very hard to live with - your husband's anger issues are not ok but a separate issue. You need to deal with this anxiety yourself and see it as a problem that needs to be fixed.

OP he can't exist around your anxiety, he has his own personality, life and experiences, too. He's obviously doing his best to be kind and try to help but it can often feel like being sucked into an emotional black hole when you live with someone much more anxious than you (especially of he's a naturally laid back chilled guy), and it's even worse when that person is constantly critical of your efforts to help their low mood. It might be that he needs to safeguard his own mental health too.

I'm not saying that to apportion any blame to you, and I'm very sympathetic to the fact that it must be very hard for you!

I think that you have very high expectations.

I personally wouldn't be able to constantly talk about anxiety or walk on eggshells in the relationship.

He has learned how to deal with emotions from a young age, this is out of his league or experience.

I read once that if you tell a women a problem she will sympathise and share your feelings. If you tell a man, he will try to fix it/give you a solution.

^ The above is certainly true with my DH, he’s a lovely person but not the right person to share my worries with unless I’m looking for a practical solution. I was diagnosed with GAD a few years ago, have had some counseling and take medication, so I’m far less anxious now. But prior to that, I had some really anxious times and my DH also got frustrated with me, partly because he felt I might be blaming some of it on him-or situations that he’d created, e.g., moving for his job, which we’ve done a few times.

Nowadays, I unload to one of my closest friends and she does the same to me. I don’t have much family and she’s like a sister to me. We have a proper moan fest sometimes. 😂

If your anxiety occurs regularly, I’d speak to your GP about it. I’d also confide more in someone other than your DH whom you’re close to ( you said your family’s great). Your DH may simply not have the emotional capacity to deal with your anxiety, so there’s no point confiding in him. My DH’s family, for example, doesn’t talk about problems so he has no experience of it and he struggles with it. We all have weak areas and this is one of his, IYSWIM. My friend is much better. Good luck💐

Would he see a therapist separately?

My Dbro was always angry if DSil was unwell he reacted awfully.

He worried my DM would die when he was a child when she was ill.

DM suffered from depression as he was the eldest he would shout at the younger ones who didn't understand why they had to be good, it became his reaction to illness.

He didn't know how to show SIL kindness when she was ill he jumped into controlling angry mode.

Hi FictionalCharacter, thanks for replying. Well, I guess I said "a bit" because I am happy in the relationship speaking in general terms. But the anger thing does bother me. It certainly makes me anxious, although it doesn't happen so often thank goodness.

So what happens is when he is hurt (usually because he feels like I have dismissed his feelings, humiliated him or treated him like his opinion is wrong or doesn't matter and mine "is superior"), he has what is perceived by me as an anger outburst. He will yell, he will drive very fast even though he knows it scares me, he will say mean things, he will bang doors... I told him in no uncertain terms that I would not tolerate insults or physical intimidation, such as walking towards me angrily and grabbing my arms. We've come a long way in that sense. But the angry reaction is still there.

I want to make it clear that he has never hit me, obviously, but I have felt scared and intimidated. I have felt the opposite of love.

When he's like that, anything I say or do is interpreted by him as an attack, even things he would normally not read too much into. My strategy is to apologise for whatever I said or did that was upsetting (normally it was something I did in an anxious/ sad state, because I let my guard down and was too self-absorbed and not my kindest), and I ask for an explanation about how my words or actions hurt him. At which point he will insist that he already explained it to me SEVERAL times and I refuse to acknowledge his feelings and choose to humiliate him further by making him explain it again. If I insist that he explains it again because I didn't understand the first time(s), it makes him angrier. There's just no way out. All I want is to know how I hurt him so that I can apologise and be kinder in the future but it's like we speak different languages.

Another thing he does when he's in this state is change subjects. I want to focus on what hurt him and my role in it and how we can prevent it from happening again, one topic at a time. Instead of talking through each issue, he will often bombard me with the many things I've done wrong, even if they are totally unrelated, I suspect because those things made him angry at the time and he didn't speak up, so he just bursts. He will also sometimes insist that I yelled at him when I didn't? But I know he perceived it as yelling. It's utterly frustrating.

Oh, and I appreciate everyone suggesting therapy, but he refuses.

After one of those outbursts, I just find it very hard to accept his gestures of affection because I just don't understand. Why would you be so unkind to someone you love? I can be angry or disappointed in him but I would never be mean like that, literally just irate.

Again, I don't want it to sound like we have a terrible marriage because that's far from the truth. But there's certainly room for improvement.

I wonder if you're both stuck in a bit of a never-ending cycle.

He doesn't know how to stop you feeling sad, and his frustration comes out as anger. You then feel even more anxious (as he's angry), he gets more frustrated and more angry, which makes you more anxious...

I would say you both need to get separate therapy. It's not really fair to expect him to be your sounding board all the time, but equally you should be able to talk to him without him getting angry and frustrated.

I say all this as someone who has been diagnosed with both anxiety and depression. It can be really, really hard to be the person who's constantly expected to listen to you and help you, and it's not fair to expect one person to take on all those stresses.

I need to understand why he feels that way and how I am contributing to his feelings with my behaviour.

Here's what he feels and why, from your OP

"I shut him out when I am feeling like this"

"I am excessively anxious"

" I isolate and don't rely on him enough"

Clear as day. That's what he feels and how you're contributing.

Maybe if you demonstrated listening to and understanding HIM, and his needs, you'd understand each other better.

@PinchOfPepper you need therapy

Not him

Hi Lydia, thanks for your reply.

I'm sorry to hear about your friend's struggle. I completely agree that anxiety makes you self-absorbed and just unable to provide others with the attention they need and expect. It's hard to know when/ if one's anxiety is justified or a problem. I would say that the health of one's baby is a valid reason for concern for many mothers-to-be, but I could be wrong. I try not to worry about mundane things and try yo remember that everyone has their own struggle.

In my case, I don't have the kind of anxiety that paralises you. I'm going about my daily life pretty normally I would say, making plans on the weekends and so on. But I do have my broody moments, specially if I haven't had time to process the bad news. I am not one to call friends and talk their ear off either. I will mention my worries over coffee but more casually and I become very uncomfortable when the conversation is all about me. This applies to conversations with my husband as well. I honestly don't know what I'm doing wrong, but I suppose I have a better understanding of the situation after reading the many replies you all have so kindly shared.

I totally agree that the OP could benefit from therapy. But if the OPs DH is getting frustrated, he appears to be turning that frustration to anger and therefore therapy could benefit him as well.

Although I think most people benefit from some therapy at some points in their lives so I could be biased!

This is why I think therapy will help you both (and I am not dismissing the fact that his behaviour is far far more wrong here when he is speeding, making you scared etc)

It sounds like what you are both saying is that you feel like the other person doesn't hear you properly and dismisses your feelings. It really does feel like there are some fundamental communication issues coming out here, which in you manifest themselves in sadness and him in anger.

It would be best to tackle this now before you have a small baby thrown into the mix. Smaller issues with communication will become much worse when you throw sleep deprivation etc into the mix.

You need to come up with some healthier reactions and ways of communicating which you can then model to your child.

My take on this is that he cannot handle these emotions in himself so shuts them out. When you present them to him, it is overwhelming and he tries to fix it then if this doesn't work immediately, shut it down by minimising. It's basically nothing to do with you at all. These are his issues impacting on his ability to be an emotionally supportive partner. I would suggest you need to give up on him fulfilling this role and find alternatives such as friends or a therapist.

I am really sorry, OP, sounds hard for both of you. It is hard to tell but there are a few things you have said which concern me a bit and I think may be adding to the problem. You mention things which can be perceived by you as anger - but he is entitled to be frustrated and angry at times. It is not ok for him to be threatening or to hurt you, but everyone is frustrated with others at times. It sounds from your post as if you have no tolerance for that at all. You mention insisting on talking about things when he tells you he does not want to. While it is true that you need to discuss problems, the time and place for that needs to work for you both. You have said you dont understand how he can be so hurtful and find it hard to accept affection from him, but describe doing exactly the same yourself and seem to expect him not to react to it. It is really possible that you are not seeing the effects of your behaviour, or that you may be over sensitive at times (common on people with mood problems).

I'd be permanently scared living with someone who acts as you describe OP, and I'm not remotely an anxious person!

He needs to control himself. The dangerous driving is particularly terrifying.

Do you honestly think bringing a child into the world with a man whom you have felt intimidated and unloved by is going to ameliorate the situation?!

I can be a bit of a worrier and my other half is the opposite. To be honest I quite like it when he just tells me to man up and stop worrying about shit because it's true - it's a waste of time. Although I might think I want someone to indulge my worries and woe is me attitude, it's actually not that helpful.

Hello, thanks for replying.

Yes, it is very possible that I am over sensitive sometimes. I am sure that I am blind to the effects of my behaviour and moods at times as well—that is one of the reasons I am asking on here, trying to get perspective. Like he will say I have humiliated him but I go over our interaction in my head over and over and I'd swear there's no way I could have humiliated him at all or so badly that he reacted that way.

I don't understand in what way I do the "exact same thing as him and expect him not to react", though. What am I missing?

I don't want to force a conversation that he doesn't want to have, but then, if for example we are in the car, he doesn't want to talk about it but he won't stop getting angrier and driving faster if I'm quiet. Like there is literally nothing I can say or do that is right. Believe me, I have tried it all. So what am I supposed to do? I end up feeling condescending for him unfortunately.

There is help out there. Go and get it.

At a time whenever the mood is relaxed, talk to him about giving you space whenever you are feeling upset.

He doesn't have to react in anyway if he can't react compassionately but he has to be quite giving you space.

I understand how hurtful it must feel when he automatically goes on the defensive side.

I hope you're pregnancy goes well.

It's a worrying time for women and with underlying anxiety it can be terrifying.

Best of luck. ✨️

Has he reaction come from his childhood?