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Original poster

Police manslaughter of 93 year old dementia sufferer.

34 replies

Mookie81 · 04/08/2022 17:55

So it's not just women who have to fear the police, but elderly people too it seems.
Awful behaviour and we just get the same old platitudes.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11081051/Police-officers-investigated-manslaughter-death-one-legged-care-home-resident-93.html

OP posts:
wonderstuff · 04/08/2022 17:57

Heard this on the news, what were they thinking? The mind boggles.

Itiswasitis90 · 04/08/2022 18:07

I cant understand why the staff called the police? Surely they could of disarmed him.
It's not like it was going to be a rambo knife and he was wheelchair bound.
Police definitely overreacted as well.

Lemonyfuckit · 04/08/2022 18:10

WTAF have I just read? This is utterly appalling.

Lockheart · 04/08/2022 18:11

Itiswasitis90 · 04/08/2022 18:07

I cant understand why the staff called the police? Surely they could of disarmed him.
It's not like it was going to be a rambo knife and he was wheelchair bound.
Police definitely overreacted as well.

Presumably the staff had good reason to call the police.

The police response seems disproportionate but as yet no charges have been brought, if I'm reading it correctly.

Itiswasitis90 · 04/08/2022 18:15

The police officers are being investigated.

I worked with neurological conditions and I can't comprehend how it happened, most of my residents are violent adults and we never called the police as you are trained. Also he was wheelchair bound with one leg- I'm struggling with the logic of how he threatened staff being quite a vulnerable man.
The police acted disgracefully no doubt about it.

The man died 3 weeks later, cause of death be confirmed but doesn't sound linked to be honest he had advanced dementia and was 93.

MissStress · 04/08/2022 18:16

Yanbu - outrageous!

Georgyporky · 04/08/2022 18:51

I agree about awful behaviour.

But you are totally wrong to call it manslaughter.

Summersnearlygone · 04/08/2022 18:57

I assume it's alleged manslaughter at this stage. It's very disturbing reading to put it mildly, what a terrible way for a life to end.

MarshaMelrose · 04/08/2022 18:58

According to hus neighbours, he was a lovely guy. But people with dementia can become horrible. However, the guy was wheelchair bound, and even if he wasn't, surely two constables could evade a 93yo one legged man. They didn't need to use their baton on him AFTER they'd pepper-sprayed him. This is really bizarre.

SolasAnla · 04/08/2022 19:01

Georgyporky · 04/08/2022 18:51

I agree about awful behaviour.

But you are totally wrong to call it manslaughter.

The two officers - both police constables from Sussex Police - have been told they are under criminal investigation for manslaughter and have also been handed gross misconduct notices.

Why is it wrong?

Unless you are suggesting that the two officers set out with an intent to kill the man ??
The charge (to be proven) is that the 2 officers engaged in a direct action which resulted in the death of someone else.

Namerchangerextraordinaire · 04/08/2022 19:08

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FavouriteDogMug · 04/08/2022 19:10

Shocking. I don't think care home staff should be blamed for calling the police. Maybe they were short handed and couldn't deal with him alone and keep other residents safe. No-one would expect the police to act that way to a disabled elderly man in a care home.

WotsitsQuavers · 04/08/2022 19:17

What a horrible situation. I know of case where the nurse died of pneumothorax after being stabbed of a pair of scissors by a patient with dementia.

Also another confused elderly patient assaulting another patient.

apintortwo · 04/08/2022 19:32

Another anti police thread

MarshaMelrose · 04/08/2022 19:47

apintortwo · 04/08/2022 19:32

Another anti police thread

We don't know how the man died. Hopefully it wasn't related to any actions of the police. But we do know that two officers pepper sprayed, tasered and hit with a baton a one-legged 93 yo wheelchair-bound man. Does that sound like proportionate behaviour to you? If a couple of right wing, swastika-tattooed skinheads had done that would you be so quick to defend them?

Georgyporky · 04/08/2022 19:47

SolasAnla · 04/08/2022 19:01

The two officers - both police constables from Sussex Police - have been told they are under criminal investigation for manslaughter and have also been handed gross misconduct notices.

Why is it wrong?

Unless you are suggesting that the two officers set out with an intent to kill the man ??
The charge (to be proven) is that the 2 officers engaged in a direct action which resulted in the death of someone else.

Show quote history

The quote is "and two police constables are under criminal investigation."

Flaunch · 04/08/2022 20:00

People with dementia can be extraordinarily strong. If his care home felt they couldn’t keep themselves or their other residents safe from him they were right to call the police and if the police couldn’t restrain him without using force then what we’re they supposed to do? I read the man was waving a knife around. How do you restrain someone you can’t get near for fear of getting stabbed? People can bleed to death of very small knife wounds - I wouldn’t try and physically restrain someone who wasn’t mentally stable if they had a knife.

the police officers were just doing their jobs.

Ginger1982 · 04/08/2022 20:06

@Georgyporky the quote is "The two officers - both police constables from Sussex Police - have been told they are under criminal investigation for manslaughter"

MarshaMelrose · 04/08/2022 20:08

Flaunch · 04/08/2022 20:00

People with dementia can be extraordinarily strong. If his care home felt they couldn’t keep themselves or their other residents safe from him they were right to call the police and if the police couldn’t restrain him without using force then what we’re they supposed to do? I read the man was waving a knife around. How do you restrain someone you can’t get near for fear of getting stabbed? People can bleed to death of very small knife wounds - I wouldn’t try and physically restrain someone who wasn’t mentally stable if they had a knife.

the police officers were just doing their jobs.

Seriously you think that pepper-spraying and tasering at the same time before hitting with a baton a 93yo one legged man in a wheelchair I'd proportionate? You don't think that a couple of constables couldn't have got out of the way of his knife-wielding? And if other elderly options were in the vicinity, wouldn't you think that just one of those methods would be enough? They did take him straight to the hospital to get his injuries treated and the hospital didn't release him. So they must have done some damage.

apintortwo · 04/08/2022 20:12

Why are you all speculating? None of us know what happened there. I'm also sure they wouldn't have called the police for no reason. Stop agitating

Flaunch · 04/08/2022 20:13

It may be that it was proportionate in the circumstances but we don’t know exactly what they were. Mentally Ill people or those under the influence of drugs or alcohol can literally have superhuman strength and and old man with knife could be as dangerous as the skinhead nazi mentioned up thread.

MarshaMelrose · 04/08/2022 20:23

Flaunch · 04/08/2022 20:13

It may be that it was proportionate in the circumstances but we don’t know exactly what they were. Mentally Ill people or those under the influence of drugs or alcohol can literally have superhuman strength and and old man with knife could be as dangerous as the skinhead nazi mentioned up thread.

So the skinhead nazi who did the same as the police would have been dangerous. But the police actions were fine

The man was 93 and had one leg. Even if he had surged out of his wheelchair, his balance wasn't going to be great. We know this...
After engaging with him briefly one of the officers pepper sprayed him and then used his baton on him while the second officer Tasered him.

Pepper-spray and Taser and baton.

SolasAnla · 04/08/2022 20:41

Georgyporky · 04/08/2022 19:47

The quote is "and two police constables are under criminal investigation."

Show quote history

Ok so your objection is that its still at an investigation stage?
Innocent until proven guilty by a jury of their peers?

bloodyunicorns · 04/08/2022 20:53

Ffs, what were the police thinking? Couldn't they use their words to disarm the man? Absolutely fucking ridiculous. They should be investigated. If they can't handle a 93yo man with dementia without violence, they should not be in the police.

BirmaBrite · 04/08/2022 21:25

I assume that the staff rang the police because of a percieved danger to themselves, other vulnerable residents or the man in question, was he threatening to harm himself ?
It's a fairly unusual call to make in that sort of setting, because being assaulted can be an everyday occurance for those staff and sadly not uncommon in peer on peer, which makes me think things were really serious or the staff were very inexperienced or very understaffed, or a combination of all of those things.
I am not sure how much training your average constable gets in Dementia awareness, them arriving in uniform will have probably escalated the situation without them having to do anything else.

What I don't understand is where he had got a knife from, as in a sharp pointy potentially lethal weapon ? It can't have been a normal dinner knife because that is little threat to a care worker or police constable ?