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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Police manslaughter of 93 year old dementia sufferer.

34 replies

Mookie81 · 04/08/2022 17:55

So it's not just women who have to fear the police, but elderly people too it seems.
Awful behaviour and we just get the same old platitudes.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11081051/Police-officers-investigated-manslaughter-death-one-legged-care-home-resident-93.html

OP posts:
Sugarplumfairy65 · 04/08/2022 21:34

bloodyunicorns · 04/08/2022 20:53

Ffs, what were the police thinking? Couldn't they use their words to disarm the man? Absolutely fucking ridiculous. They should be investigated. If they can't handle a 93yo man with dementia without violence, they should not be in the police.

Have you ever tried "using your words" on a violent, unpredictable dementia patient? I have. It doesnt work

Maytodecember · 04/08/2022 21:41

I hope the officers had bodycams switched on.
In theory it should not be necessary to taser, pepper spray or hit a 93 year old wheelchair bound man —- but only the people there know how he was behaving, who he was threatening ( if anyone) or what he was armed with.

BirmaBrite · 04/08/2022 21:47

Ffs, what were the police thinking? Couldn't they use their words to disarm the man? Absolutely fucking ridiculous

I tried that approach with someone of a similar age with dementia and they picked up a 4ft high oxygen cylinder and threw it at my head.
Dementia doesn't just present as short term memory loss/forgetfullness. If someone is in fight or flight mode, they can be incredibly physically strong, add in paranoia and cognitive impairment and it can be very difficult to 'use their words' to de escalate a situation, even for the most experienced of people or family or friends.

QueenOfHiraeth · 04/08/2022 21:52

WotsitsQuavers · 04/08/2022 19:17

What a horrible situation. I know of case where the nurse died of pneumothorax after being stabbed of a pair of scissors by a patient with dementia.

Also another confused elderly patient assaulting another patient.

Locally to me I know of 2 recent cases where an elderly resident in a care home has been killed by another elderly patient. I don't condone the Police response and think we need to wait for the investigation results before commenting on that but suspect the injuries and deaths caused by elderly mentally debilitated patients that we know of are the tip of the iceberg

Itiswasitis90 · 04/08/2022 23:30

Sugarplumfairy65 · 04/08/2022 21:34

Have you ever tried "using your words" on a violent, unpredictable dementia patient? I have. It doesnt work

My dad had dementia and have worked with dementia patients and you can indeed use your words, most of the time you change the subject/distract them.

You work with them and know their history, their family, their past hobbies- you have a connection and normally know what to say to get them out of that aggressive mood.

Sometimes not enough training is done or the right people in that setting. I think calling the police was the biggest mistake as it obviously made him more aggressive as the police can be quite intimidating, especially if your confused.

I'm sure whatever unfolded that day will come out as the body cam is being reviewed.

For the police they need an IQ test, I cant comprehend how anyone thought it was reasonable to use pepper spray, baton and taser on a elderly dementia resident.

For the care home they need to look at more training for staff to defuse situations, how this vulnerable resident got hold of a knife and better risk assessments for those with aggressive mood swings.

Florenz · 04/08/2022 23:36

What if using words doesn't work? I'm sure the police could have "got out of the way" but what do they do then? Leave him there threatening staff and other residents with a knife?

Mookie81 · 05/08/2022 01:47

Georgyporky · 04/08/2022 18:51

I agree about awful behaviour.

But you are totally wrong to call it manslaughter.

I'm only calling it that as that's the legal term they're using in the article.

OP posts:
MarshaMelrose · 05/08/2022 13:27

Sugarplumfairy65 · 04/08/2022 21:34

Have you ever tried "using your words" on a violent, unpredictable dementia patient? I have. It doesnt work

Have you ever tried "using your words" on a violent, unpredictable dementia patient? I have. It doesnt work.

My mum has dementia and words can work but it's not always the case I'm sure. But even if they don't work, the guy was 93 with one leg. How mobile would he be? Not very. How much much balance would he have? Not much? Are we really saying that dealing with a barely mobile 93yo should result in pepper-spray, tasering and hitting with a baton? Is that modern policing?

MarshaMelrose · 05/08/2022 13:31

Florenz · 04/08/2022 23:36

What if using words doesn't work? I'm sure the police could have "got out of the way" but what do they do then? Leave him there threatening staff and other residents with a knife?

They arrived, spoke to him and immediately pepper sprayed him. There was no effort to isolate or talk or let him calm down. Is it true that we're now recruiting police that re so lacking in skills that they can't even contain a one legged 93yo in a wheelchair without resorting to tasering? Let's hope they never arm the police, then!

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