To be starting to really worry about Liz Truss

[Anothernamechangeplease]

OK, so I'm not a Tory. I hate Boris, and despise the rest of them. I don't hold or much hope of any of them actually doing anything to address the problems that we're currently facing, because I don't think any of them actually give a toss about ordinary people. Of the two candidates that are left in the Tory leadership contest, I would pick Rishi, because I think he has a more realistic understanding of the economic challenges, but obviously, I'm not a party member so I have no say in the matter.

Nevertheless, I have been relatively sanguine and the prospect of Liz Truss as leader, a) because I figured that things couldn't get much worse than the shit show that we have had under Boris, and b) because I am pretty sure that she will be utterly unelectable when it comes to the next general election, so worst case scenario would be that we have another couple of years of crappy Tory government, exacerbated by the cost of living crisis, and then we can be pretty confident of getting shot of them. So, pretty shit all in all, but survivable.

But listening to everything that she is saying she wants to do, to the economic forecasts, and to the analysis from both within and beyond the Tory party, I'm starting to get really very worried. All this talk of huge tax cuts and massive reductions in public spending...I fear that she is going to make the looming economic crisis infinitely worse at a time when we can least afford to risk it. Nearly all economists seem to agree that her plans are going to make things worse, not better.

We are already at breaking point. Public services are on their knees. Businesses are struggling to stay afloat. People both in work and out of work are struggling. The most vulnerable are already having to choose between bare essentials such as eating and heating. Inflation continues to soar, energy prices are going off the scale, interest rates are going up... and she is about to make it worse! We just don't have the resilience in the system to cope with this.

I am actually very worried about what is going to happen. This could be very bad indeed, and a lot of people are going to suffer. If we end up with austerity on steroids in the midst of an unprecedented economic crisis, there will be massive civil unrest, surely?

[CactusBlossom]

@Crankley

I love this thread.

You all bitched and whined and moaned about Boris Johnson and now he has gone. I said in a thread some time ago, 'be sorry what you wish for'. Those who are calling Liz Truss thick, she went to Oxford, I'm wondering how many of you did the same.

I'm a member of the Conservative Party and will be voting for her. I look forward to hearing you squeal

Looking forward to hearing people squeal is the level of compassion we have come to expect from the Tories (i.e. none at all). At least someone is honest enough to admit they vote for the Tories. I don't care if Truss bought a degree certificate online or worked in Tesco, we need politicians who have a reasonable understanding of international relations and the way the economy works, combined with a sense of decency and honour... not the self-serving shysters we have in the Tory cabinet in the moment. My PhD is in Computer Science from the University of London @Crankley before you launch into an attack on education.

[MissyB1]

@Isitsixoclockalready

The opposition parties need to start talking to each other too. The path to power is in coalition.

We absolutely need a coalition of the opposition parties. I’ve been saying it for a few years now, it’s our only hope.

[FinallyHere]

There must be opportunities to reduce public spending in the right areas surely?

One way would be to reduce subsidies to employers, by compelling them to pay their employees a proper living wage. This would eliminate the majority of universal benefit top ups to people working full time, who find themselves still unable to earn a living wage.

What are the chances of that?

[MarshaBradyo]

Looks like Sunak did better tonight so maybe not all over yet

[warofthemonstertrucks]

To me she seems like Boris but female and if anything less likeable than him (not that I especially like the clown but I can see how some people would fall for the Schtick-she doesn't even have that). Nightmare.

[HesterShaw1]

@warofthemonstertrucks

To me she seems like Boris but female and if anything less likeable than him (not that I especially like the clown but I can see how some people would fall for the Schtick-she doesn't even have that). Nightmare.

Doris Johnson

[Clavinova]

any savings made should be reallocated to those services that are underfunded, not given away in tax cuts

The OECD suggested tax cuts;

OECD Warns UK Set to Stagnate in 2023, Urges Tax Cuts

In its bi-annual economic outlook, the club of rich nations said recent increases in income and business taxes will contribute to a slowdown that will see gross domestic product fail to advance in 2023.

www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-06-08/cut-taxes-before-economy-grinds-to-a-halt-oecd-warns-uk

[Elodie09]

Pretty sure Labour and Lib dems are working together , coalition is needed for the rescue of our fabulous country. They are cleverer than the Tories would like to think and won't be shouting about this.

[RemusLupinsBiggestGroupie]

@Anothernamechangeplease

When people talk about her being "thick", they are not referring to her academic ability but to her capacity for good judgement. So far, she has demonstrated very poor judgement. Going to Oxbridge offers absolutely no guarantee that people will have the skills that are required to run the country effectively - and no, I didn't study at Oxford myself, but I did go to Cambridge fwiw.

And yes, we bitched and whined and moaned about Boris Johnson because he was patently unfit for public office. Believing that Liz Truss will be a disaster doesn't make me want Boris back - not in a million years! - it just makes me more impatient for a general election so that we can send the whole sorry lot of them packing. It is not wrong to want to aspire to a choice that offers more than two terrible options.

I am sure that you and your Tory cronies will be the ones who are left squealing when it finally dawns on you that you have made the Tories unelectable for a generation.

Bravo!

[Blossomtoes]

@youboozeyoulose

Thanks for the link. So "firmly behind" is 54% - or just over half? Interesting how you posted a link, rather than posting the statistic in the post.

You've just posted utter bullshit and hoped no-one would call you out on it. Poor.

I always post a link. To show I didn’t just make it up. It’s a fact. Not bullshit.

[Clavinova]

Pretty sure Labour and Lib dems are working together , coalition is needed for the rescue of our fabulous country. They are cleverer than the Tories would like to think and won't be shouting about this

18 July 2022
Starmer rules out even informal post-election deal with Lib Dems

www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jul/18/starmer-rules-out-even-informal-post-election-deal-with-lib-dems

Starmer's forensic attention to detail failing him recently:

This evening;
Sir Keir Starmer found to have breached MPs’ code of conduct eight times.
Labour leader previously said he was ‘absolutely confident’ he had not done so

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/keir-starmer-mp-code-of-conduct-breach-b2138481.html

26 July 2022
Starmer incorrectly claims economy hasn’t grown for 12 years.

www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-starmer-incorrectly-claims-economy-hasnt-grown-for-12-years

[TullyApplebottom]

@Hollyhead

I know tons of more centrist Tories who have held their noses and stayed voting for them in 2017 and 2019 because Corbyn was untenable to them who will now be voting for Starmer. I think the middle England heartlands will be giving the tories a massive shock.

I’d be wary of taking these assurances about voting Labour too seriously if I were you. Mouthing off is one thing (and if you are as tiresomely left wing in real life as here, people may well just say whatever it takes to shut you up). A GE focusses minds and turkeys tend not to vote for Christmas.

[TullyApplebottom]

@walkersareback

I think this is the most accurate description I have read of Keir Starmer - too principled and decent to win against liars who will say anything to get elected and then just lie lie lie. Liz Truss was at the same school and at the same time as the aunt and mother of a friend of me - it was not a rubbish school - she is lying. She comes from the Boris Johnson school of politics - just tell lies, DM will report them as as fact and idiots will vote for you.

So “principled and decent”, in fact, that when one of his female MPs finds she can’t attend conference due to threats from trans activists in the party, he goes on TV to undermine her and tell us that basic facts of female biology are “something that shouldn’t be said.”
evidence of bossiness, priggishness and misogyny, certainly - but decency? I rather think not.

[Nanalisa60]

Better the devil you know!!

[abcd4321]

@TullyApplebottom

So “principled and decent”, in fact, that when one of his female MPs finds she can’t attend conference due to threats from trans activists in the party, he goes on TV to undermine her and tell us that basic facts of female biology are “something that shouldn’t be said.”
evidence of bossiness, priggishness and misogyny, certainly - but decency? I rather think not.

Yes he doesn't deserve the votes of any women or (men who care about the women and children in their lives) on the 'gender identity ideology' embrace whatsoever.

[Elodie09]

@Clavinova You do you , I'll believe what I believe.

[CloudPop]

She'll be around for 6-12 months before Johnson comes sweeping back in for his second term to "save the day".

[1990s]

@ChristinaXYZ

It is absolutely about misogyny @ArseInTheCoOpWindow the way she is being talked about on here (who shags... etc). She is a little odd in delivery but being slick does not make you a good PM. I have seen no concrete reason given for her with being inept or 'scary' (Scary - seriously? How old are we?)

It is horrible to think of being scared by politicians but people on here seem to be gleefully whipping themselves into a frenzy of hate with little evidence. Above they are also harder on Liz than Rishi (who criticised her tax cutting then said he'd take income tax down to 16%!) which again has the misogyny showing.

Seriously, if people don't want to be thought woman-hating they should leave her looks and relationship alone and hold her to the same standards as the men, not higher ones.

If people don't want to be thought playground bullies they should lay off the way she speaks. (or look it another way, speaking a little oddly perhaps she had to be better than the men (both Rishi and Starmer) to get where she is?)

Actually I think you’ll find I said “who shags these people”

Its not misogynistic when I’m referring to men and women. And to be clear, I am. By “these people” I mean all the awful Tory philanderers, male and female.

[UxbridgeVoteBJOut]

Truss CAN be worse than any of the recent PMs.

I swear it's a set up to bring BoJo back in as some kind of saviour

I hoped Sunak would explain how to cautiously steer economy thru difficult times but no.... he's desperate to appeal to her voters so showing himself to be sad & pathetic in his statements, too

Meanwhile, Truss says increasingly bonkers stuff every day. "Tax cuts will cause growth not inflation" is one of them. The tax cuts are for corporations, everyone, not you & me.

I'm a fiscal conservative. Labour's ideas mostly look unrealistic to me. Tories really should be able to win me over. But not a chance with Truss. Her policies are mostly going to accelerate coming economic disaster. I despair. And yet I now hope Labour get in because at least they aren't totally bonkers (nowadays, post Corbyn).

Labour are in the back row smirking, eating popcorn thru this leadership contest

[Liebig]

@Clavinova

Pretty sure Labour and Lib dems are working together , coalition is needed for the rescue of our fabulous country. They are cleverer than the Tories would like to think and won't be shouting about this

18 July 2022
Starmer rules out even informal post-election deal with Lib Dems

www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jul/18/starmer-rules-out-even-informal-post-election-deal-with-lib-dems

Starmer's forensic attention to detail failing him recently:

This evening;
Sir Keir Starmer found to have breached MPs’ code of conduct eight times.
Labour leader previously said he was ‘absolutely confident’ he had not done so

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/keir-starmer-mp-code-of-conduct-breach-b2138481.html

26 July 2022
Starmer incorrectly claims economy hasn’t grown for 12 years.

www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-starmer-incorrectly-claims-economy-hasnt-grown-for-12-years

I expected better of Channel 4 on that last link.

Imagine thinking GDP is anything but a worthless metric to base anything useful off. Starmer is more or less on the ball in principle. It's too bad that technically, he's wrong (because debt growth and billionaires, innit). And technically wrong is the best kind of wrong.

[vera99]

U-Turn Truss - The Grouchess Marx Pound Shop Cosplay Thatcher

"These are my principles. If you don’t like them I have others."

twitter.com/OxfordDiplomat/status/1555288318514012160

[Justanotherlurker]

I think this is the most accurate description I have read of Keir Starmer - too principled and decent to win against liars who will say anything to get elected

Meanwhile in the real world I doubt something like this will produce multiple threads on MN:

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/keir-starmer-mp-code-of-conduct-breach-b2138481.html

Litterally open labour party door knockers and Corbyn supporters where all over MN to 'ignore' his anti eu history and anti westearn stance and believe the 'polished' version just to get elected, 'you are not voting for a leader' was a popular saying during the last election.

To pretend a career politician and lying is just a tory thing is one reason why you no doubt belive the country has become devisive, without an ounce of self reflection involved.

[GratefulMe]

@FinallyHere

There must be opportunities to reduce public spending in the right areas surely?

One way would be to reduce subsidies to employers, by compelling them to pay their employees a proper living wage. This would eliminate the majority of universal benefit top ups to people working full time, who find themselves still unable to earn a living wage.

What are the chances of that?

What percentage of those people are paid by the public sector though?

[JasmineVioletRose]

Problem is that Tories are more racist than they are sexist OP.
They won't elect Rishi.

[Blossomtoes]

@JasmineVioletRose

Problem is that Tories are more racist than they are sexist OP.
They won't elect Rishi.

I really can’t believe I’m defending them but that’s so obviously unfair - look at the number of black and brown faces round the cabinet table.