To be scared the NHS won't go back to 'normal'? Does anyone actually know if it will?

[leafyclover]

I'm not sure if this is a case of unreasonable or not or it's just my anxiety. Also, I'm not trying to start a political bunfight nor am I NHS bashing, I'm genuinely scared.

I'm on a low income. I can't afford any form of private healthcare.

After being lucky enough to be in relatively good health most of my life, I've recently developed a gynae problem related to my births years ago. I'm in a lot of discomfort every day and it's causing symptoms which are really impacting on my life and I don't know how much longer I can continue to do my job like this.

I've been to my GP who has referred my to the hospital, but she says it will be at least 8 months, possibly even a year. A YEAR!! To even speak to a consultant?? Then presumably waits for tests etc before I even start any treatment??

I'm almost more depressed about this than I am about the condition. I remember being annoyed about waiting 8 weeks 16 years ago.. It feels so incredibly unfair and scary that I am mid 30s and could be looking at years and years of my life like this until I get treatment.

Please tell me that this is temporary backlog and things will get better..

I am so down about it and scared for the future.

No it won't. Staffing is dire and is getting worse with no remedies beside the government making new roles which require a lower level of training and taking on more and more responsibility which is scary. The threshold for accessing treatment will continue to climb and the postcode lottery will be alive and well. If someone can't afford private healthcare (which now has long wait times as well) then it will be crap.

Best thing is to join people like junior doctors fighting for better conditions, vote for people who aren't intent on destroying it for a start.

All I can say is, don’t vote conservative. They don’t value public services. Labour, when in power, valued state education and the NHS. This was shown by funding them adequately and that was also shown in waiting times.

I don’t think things will get better. Sajid Javid when health minister said the NHS doesn’t need more money. I could have thrown my (ageing, slow, inefficient) NHS computer out the window in anger. Our service was a smoking ruin and we needed more money to deliver safer care to patients. Even though I am a huge supporter of the NHS at the moment I recommend to anyone to go private if they possibly can because NHS care is often substandard right now, which is incredibly upsetting for everyone involved.

Oh and I don’t know if it will work but you could try and find out waiting times for the service you need at neighbouring Trusts and ask for a referral to another?

I’m a nurse, it’ll only continue to get worse under a conservative government, unfortunately.

I thin

I think the nhs reached some kind of negative critical mass a while ago (when covid hit maybe) and is falling as we speak. The crash when it hits the ground and disintegrates is still ahead, but inevitable at this point. The real problem is there is nothing to replace it. Private couldn't take up the slack even if everyone could afford to pay.

No idea what the answer is but the future is pretty bleak and I really feel for you and everyone else stuck in this nightmare of waiting times, substandard care, lack of staff and a govt that wouldn't piss on any of us (or our vital institutions) if we were on fire

If we have a Labour government for more than a term, things will get better but it’s been so run down for so long it won’t be easy.
I’m sorry. Good luck!

What you describe isn't just down to covid. Before the pandemic people were having to wait for far to long, this is the impact of over a decades worth of cuts to NHS funding. The Government are keen to blame their own failings on the pandemic when it comes to public services buckling under the pressure, but all the pandemic did was expose and worsen cracks that had been growing for a long time. Nothing will improve whilst we are governed by people who, whatever they may say, are fundamentally ideologically opposed to a healthcare system that is free at the point of use.

No I don't think it will.....I believe it being allowed to fail.

The NHS will never be fit for purpose, not after so many cuts and large population shifts

So unfortunately I don't think we will get back to a state of normal

We have private health care but that only helps for routine stuff, in emergencies we still have to deal with the shit show that is our national health service.

Such a shit mess the tories have got us into

I can't see it getting better.

I have a family member who is now terminally ill because something they asked to be referred to hospital about 16 months ago was only investigated when they were blue lighted to A&E.

They didn't ever get told a 6-8 month wait, they were just told that there were no appointments available. And despite them making doctors appointments every couple weeks and multiple visits to A&E it's now too late.

If they had been treated 16 months ago they may have survived it. Now they will not.

Yep tried to ger a few referrals recently and GPs are saying most referrals are rejected. It needs better funding and to attract more staff (bigger pay rise?)

I've name changed but I work in the NHS as a senior nurse within one of the big London trusts.

It's hard to explain how bad it is.

Recruitment is becoming increasingly difficult. Jobs that 3-4 years ago would have had applicants into double figures I'm now getting nobody apply for. I'll role out the advert 2 or 3 times but nothing.
Not just across nursing but across the medics, the OTs, the other allied HCPS. We shuffle people around internally but you can't perpetually backfill when there's no staff to start with!
My staff are tired, there is lingering trauma after the pandemic, and many people have left the more stressful roles because frankly they can't manage any more and it just isn't worth it.
Sickness rates are high.
There used to be seasonal lulls across all services but that doesn't happen any more.
Public Health....what public health?! The funding is way off and not going to where it needs to. My trust is a mental health trust-one of the biggest and our bed situation is nothing short of frightening. We can't work magic.

Although the government and media would have you believe there has been a pay deal it doesn't translate into a gain for many many staff. My pay has actually gone down to the tune of approx £45 per month in comparison to last year because of tax rises and inflation.

We're a wealthy rich country, and so it is very much a choice by the government if and how to fund the NHS, and how to tax corporations and the mega wealthy. Sadly there has been state sabotage of public services for many many years and under the Tory government we have become an ultra capitalist society.

Even with a change of government, in terms of the NHS I do believe we're beyond the point of no return where privatisation is concerned. It actually makes me quite emotional to think about it and I find myself wondering what Nye Bevan would make of it all.

Sadly like others say this is the reality. Clawing back the backlog from covid will take years (it's not just the number of people it is also those who will know need more care because of the delays they have faced). We are now at critical in terms of staffing across all areas and there is no plan in place to resolve this. Underfunding means buildings, systems and equipment are woefully out of date and would now cost a fortune to replace/upgrade.

Under a Conservative government there is no chance (which isn't a shock, they have been quite clear about their long term view). I'm not even certain a couple of terms under labour or whoever would work - even if their main focus was the NHS.

However, you mention that you can't afford healthcare, you're not alone there. Should we move to a system like that you'll find companies offering it as part of the employment package and so on. Don't panic yet.

The NHS has never been a stable fixed cast in iron organisation.

As long as I've been alive and (intensively) using it, the NHS has changed and adapted and re-invented the old ways, better and faster and kinder. Trust
me,I never want to go back to NHS hospitals, gynaecology and womens' care as experienced in the 1960s. and 70's.

You might not be able to afford full private treatment. But a private, paid specialist CONSULT is relatively affordable and can set your mind at rest. Just ask your NHS GP for a referral.

Brexit was the major killer for the NHS even before Covid hit. Losing so many EU (and non-EU) immigrants destroyed the staff levels in the care sector - and if there's no care sector there will be nowhere near enough beds in hospitals because there's no halfway house between fully recovered and occupying what could be a surgical bed while recovering fully. There needs to be effective convalescent care to maximise hospital efficiency!

Treating and paying clinical staff better would help, solving stupid stuff like certain consultants running into situations where they would be paying more in tax than they earn if they take on additional NHS sessions would free up some staff availability too.

The NHS has always had issues with things that affect quality of life but are not directly life threatening for as long as I can remember. Somewhat urgent but non-emergency care is stuck in no mans land.

It’s a complete shit show op. I’ve taken on a second job to save up for an operation for my dd. At the moment her medical issue is mostly cosmetic (it is causing her some pain), but if it’s not treated within a couple of years then it’s going to start causing serious issues as she grows. I was told by the nhs that there’s a 5 year minimum waiting list for this operation, she can’t wait that long. I need to save up anything between 2k-5k depending on the severity of it which hasn’t been fully explored yet. Also my youngest dc has an enamel defect in his teeth caused by medication. The last time I took him to the dentist she said he needs four teeth out under anaesthetic. She made the referral for the op, a few weeks later I got a letter back saying that the referral has been refused because he’s fit and well. He’s not though! 😡 the tax me and my oh pay with the 4 jobs between us is unreal, and we can’t even get our kids medical care!

The state of women's gynaecological health within this country is scarily poor.
I'm waiting for an hysterectomy and prolapses repairs.
I'm in chronic, unbearable pain, look 9 months pregnant, bleed without respite, can't wee or poo properly anymore, wet myself throughout the day, and struggle to walk.
And, yet I'm not considered an urgent case?!

Sadly I think those waiting times for "non urgent" and routine appointments were not dissimilar pre Pandemic. A bigger issue is those patients who could not access routine, follow up and gp care or delayed seeking help during Covid and whose conditions are now more acute. Urgent pathways such as 2 week cancer referrals are still available though.

Yeah well that Pro labour doesn't wash in Wales where we're pro labour for 22 years we're now exporting our surgeries to England, BUPA and the Spire.

I’m also a nurse in a large nhs trust and unfortunately we have passed the point of no return. So many things are not fit for standard even throwing unlimited money at problems wouldn’t have an effect for years- and that’s never going to happen.

Many hospitals are old buildings, too small to serve the size of the towns they are in as populations have exploded.
Not enough staff are being trained to replace those that retire, let alone those that go sick/leave for private/leave the profession because of burnout. Limited numbers coming from EU due to brexit.
Hospitals are now having to take on the fallout from other failing services- mental health crisis ending up in a&e. Elderly falls and social care gone wrong ending up in a&e. Those medically fit and waiting for carers clogging up ward beds. Hospitals can’t just do what they were designed for- acute care and a quick turnover.

Those are just a few of the problems and it’s so deeply frustrating working as we are just firefighting now, bouncing from disaster to disaster. We also have an increasingly unhealthy aging population as obesity is growing. This is a generalisation but the many of the ‘war generation’ reached their 70’s in relatively good health but conditions like diabetes are becoming more and more common. Diabetes is hugely expensive to treat as leads to so many other complications- at its worst limb amputation/dialysis/transplant.

I had a gynae problem in 2009 and even back then was told 8 month minimum wait to see a consultant. I was in incredible pain constantly and was offered morphine patches whilst I waited for my appointment..unsure how many months they were imagining I would stay on them! I ended up going to A&E and was dealt with from there, turned out I had an issue that was days away from rupturing my fallopian tube. If you can scrape together the money for a private consultantion that can sometimes speed things up, but I agree it is awful. Hope you get seen soon.

I don’t think it will get better but I also think it was pretty poor even before covid which is always trotted out as one of the reasons . I have several lifelong conditions and am supposed to see an endocrinologist every 6 months , obviously that’s not realistic but on average I get spoken to once every 2.5 yrs . My condition means I have bloods that need monitoring every 6 months so I request them with my GP and manage my medication myself after reviewing my results . I’m lucky that I have the capability and knowledge to do this - not everyone does .

I feel for you OP. I had a gyne issue this week that needed urgent medical attention after being in hospital on holiday. I went to a&e and after a long wait and after various bloods and scan to investigate and finding nothing, I was referred to the emergency gyne clinic and seen by a gynaecologist 5 days later.

Obviously this is just how my trust works but I’d imagine it may be similar elsewhere. If it’s getting worse and impacting your life more and more you’re going to end up in a&e anyway, (and I’m sure I’ll get flamed for saying this) but I would start there.

We also have an increasingly unhealthy aging population as obesity is growing. This is a generalisation but the many of the ‘war generation’ reached their 70’s in relatively good health but conditions like diabetes are becoming more and more common. Diabetes is hugely expensive to treat as leads to so many other complications- at its worst limb amputation/dialysis/transplant.

This is the unforgiveable catastrophic failure of successive governments. It's as though "public health" is seen as an unBritish kind of nanny state, when actually the lack of decent public health measures is a gaping chasm of a drain on the entire system. A few adverts on the telly doesn't cut it.