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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Please help- conflict at work

62 replies

Forumqueen · 03/08/2022 18:53

I work in quite a high pressured role for a huge company (been here almost 2 years) and have recently announced I am pregnant. I thought I was being paranoid but my manager has been treating me differently even since the announcement.

just to give some background we have always had quite a good relationship and she’s always given me great feedback. But since announcing my pregnancy she’s nit picking at everything and micromanaging me. Constantly finding fault for things I do. I’ll give a few examples:

was late for one of our catch-ups as I was in a client she was extremely blunt and said I need to communicative better (this was virtual)

didn’t really feel up for going to the work socials and she pulls me to the side accusing me of not wanting to integrate into the team. I ended up going anyway as she basically told me I had no choice.

I was Ill so couldn’t make it to one of the team meetings she again made a big deal of this accusing me of not communicating and telling me that I MUST go…I was extremely Ill from food poinsoning so I could not go. Anyway she keeps bringing up this particular incident as a reason for me having poor communication (I let her know 2 days before)

most recently she ambushed me with a virtual call, including HER manager to give me feedback. Apparently I have had quite a few complaints from other managers and customers about my lack of knowledge.

She also mentioned that I was late once for a customer meeting. I unfortunately had car trouble and was devastated about this (first time in 2 years that I’ve ever been late for a customer ) another complaint was that I was turning up to customer sites unannounced (which isn’t true) I obviously wanted to know where and from exactly who these complaints were coming from but they refused to tell me! I let them both know that I felt ambushed in this call and it we went back and fourth with me basically trying to defend myself against these accusations. (I was actually close to tears it was horrible)

they made it seem as though it was constructive but it wasn’t at all! Especially with regards to my performance which I always get positive feedback on!

It ended with me telling them that I would really like to know where and who the complaints are coming from. I think I have a right to know. My manager said she will set this up. I have a feeling this meeting will never go ahead- or if it does I will find that her report of events is hugely exaggerated.

So basically I guess this isn’t really an AIBU but Would really be interested in people opinions as to whether I have a right to be upset. I would also like some advice on how to approach our next meeting.

OP posts:
RockinHorseShite · 03/08/2022 22:50

There have also been other instances where I know management will just say I didn’t speak up ( such as doing to much work and not asking for help)

In response to this, your are overloaded with work, being constantly undermined & hindered with getting on with the job, with sudden micromanaging, which is eroding your confidence, which is why you are not feeling able to speak up. When you try & speak up & raise workload & other concerns, you are again made to feel small by being made to feel you are complaining about nothing & negatively compared to other staff members

Original poster
Forumqueen · 03/08/2022 23:10

RockinHorseShite · 03/08/2022 22:50

There have also been other instances where I know management will just say I didn’t speak up ( such as doing to much work and not asking for help)

In response to this, your are overloaded with work, being constantly undermined & hindered with getting on with the job, with sudden micromanaging, which is eroding your confidence, which is why you are not feeling able to speak up. When you try & speak up & raise workload & other concerns, you are again made to feel small by being made to feel you are complaining about nothing & negatively compared to other staff members

You actually hit the nail on the head with this one! I have actually copied and pasted you comment onto my notes. This is exactly what I’ve been going through….but I just couldn’t articulate it. It’s mind games it absolutely awful.

OP posts:
Spookysparkles · 03/08/2022 23:21

I don’t have any kids, but have found myself in a similar position in the past - my line manager started acting differently towards me. Not picking- making issues where there were none, ambushing me with meetings with another colleague present etc. long story short I was cornered into resigning less than a month later.I guess what I’m saying is- seek independent advice from Acas or pregnant then screwed as it sounds like your manager has a plan that isn’t in your favour. Sorry to be blunt but that’s how it sounds to me.
good luck OP

RockinHorseShite · 03/08/2022 23:30

The other thing that I remember happening with my situation & that I'm guessing is relevant to you too...

Prior to telling them I was pregnant, I had the total respect of the whole company, especially my boss. Nobody ever questioned my opinion, they just accepted my expertise & acted on it. I never had to explain myself as they knew & trusted my years of experience.

Once they knew I was pregnant, this changed, it was a granule build up that escalated after DD was born, but I found that I now wasted so much time explaining myself & arguing my point, when that had never happened before. By the end of it, I was arguing every point... it wastes time, adds to workload, wears you down, stressed & exhausts you & leads to you being able to do your best work.

My experience of this was a lot of years ago now, about 18, but I think maternity law has strengthened even further since then.

I didn't have a lot of physical evidence as it was at a time when emails etc were still quite new to a lot of businesses, it was part of the sales & manufacturing side, but not the creative & technical hub that I ran & wasn't used to communicate between staff, & I wasn't really able to have much in the way of a paper trail, so most of my evidence was verbal, with a few ex staff as witnesses of my previous role etc. it didn't get that far though. I did have some texts proving I was working from the train as they were suddenly disputing my company phone use too, even though I only ever used it for work 🙄.

I don't know what difference today's common use of emails & other paper trails might make, but I didn't need anything like as much as I thought & found it easy to speak for myself, even though I was dreading it.

RockinHorseShite · 03/08/2022 23:32

& leads to you not to be able to do your best work.

Original poster
Forumqueen · 03/08/2022 23:44

RockinHorseShite · 03/08/2022 23:30

The other thing that I remember happening with my situation & that I'm guessing is relevant to you too...

Prior to telling them I was pregnant, I had the total respect of the whole company, especially my boss. Nobody ever questioned my opinion, they just accepted my expertise & acted on it. I never had to explain myself as they knew & trusted my years of experience.

Once they knew I was pregnant, this changed, it was a granule build up that escalated after DD was born, but I found that I now wasted so much time explaining myself & arguing my point, when that had never happened before. By the end of it, I was arguing every point... it wastes time, adds to workload, wears you down, stressed & exhausts you & leads to you being able to do your best work.

My experience of this was a lot of years ago now, about 18, but I think maternity law has strengthened even further since then.

I didn't have a lot of physical evidence as it was at a time when emails etc were still quite new to a lot of businesses, it was part of the sales & manufacturing side, but not the creative & technical hub that I ran & wasn't used to communicate between staff, & I wasn't really able to have much in the way of a paper trail, so most of my evidence was verbal, with a few ex staff as witnesses of my previous role etc. it didn't get that far though. I did have some texts proving I was working from the train as they were suddenly disputing my company phone use too, even though I only ever used it for work 🙄.

I don't know what difference today's common use of emails & other paper trails might make, but I didn't need anything like as much as I thought & found it easy to speak for myself, even though I was dreading it.

Thank you ! I have started taking notes and will start escalating this tomorrow. Similar to you, nothing I did previously was questioned. Now my manager has said she will start to assist me in calls etc which will obviously bruise my confidence - this was never needed before.

OP posts:
Original poster
Forumqueen · 03/08/2022 23:45

Spookysparkles · 03/08/2022 23:21

I don’t have any kids, but have found myself in a similar position in the past - my line manager started acting differently towards me. Not picking- making issues where there were none, ambushing me with meetings with another colleague present etc. long story short I was cornered into resigning less than a month later.I guess what I’m saying is- seek independent advice from Acas or pregnant then screwed as it sounds like your manager has a plan that isn’t in your favour. Sorry to be blunt but that’s how it sounds to me.
good luck OP

Oh now- this is awful to hear. They can’t make you resign! I wish you would have seeked help and advice.

OP posts:
billy1966 · 04/08/2022 00:19

Asking by email for an explanation as to why your work now needs supervision is reasonable.

If she tries to verbally give you some bullshit reason, email her back confirmation of what she told you.

Often people like your manager will not confirm or answer queries on their actions and words.

But you can create a paper trail of sequential emails quering her treatment of you.

But you need advice and you need to join a union.

Did you feel pressure to agree to deferment of your promotion?

If so you can add that into your contact with HR.
Deferral of your promotion and now your client interactions being supervised?

You need to request the basis of this and ask for the names and specific complaints against you that she has verbally referenced.

Unless they are thick as shit, they will twig the emails and paper trail and may well back off.
Either way you need it.

Flag it with your GP too, that you feel very stressed by efforts to undermine and possibly efforts to manage you out.

Again, you want this noted.

billy1966 · 04/08/2022 00:29

Whatever00 · 03/08/2022 20:50

I would do a Subject access request. I would request all email about you. I would also keep a record of incidents including date, time, brief description. Make sure your a member of a union and contact ACAS if you need advice moving forward.

Subject Access Request is an excellent suggestion.

Considering how all this concern about your performance has suddenly arisen this will be a very good thing to ask for down the line.

Perhaps leave it for a bit before asking for it though, until you see how things play out after your mat leave.

These can be very informative as people forget about them and can be very indiscreet in emails.

Craver · 04/08/2022 01:16

" If it looks like a duck quacks like a duck it probably is a duck". Constructive Dismissal I'd say.

Original poster
Forumqueen · 04/08/2022 01:26

billy1966 · 04/08/2022 00:19

Asking by email for an explanation as to why your work now needs supervision is reasonable.

If she tries to verbally give you some bullshit reason, email her back confirmation of what she told you.

Often people like your manager will not confirm or answer queries on their actions and words.

But you can create a paper trail of sequential emails quering her treatment of you.

But you need advice and you need to join a union.

Did you feel pressure to agree to deferment of your promotion?

If so you can add that into your contact with HR.
Deferral of your promotion and now your client interactions being supervised?

You need to request the basis of this and ask for the names and specific complaints against you that she has verbally referenced.

Unless they are thick as shit, they will twig the emails and paper trail and may well back off.
Either way you need it.

Flag it with your GP too, that you feel very stressed by efforts to undermine and possibly efforts to manage you out.

Again, you want this noted.

Hi This is extremely useful information thank you.I’ve copied you comments into my notes for Hr tomorrow And yes I was pressured to agree deferral of my promotion .

OP posts:
billy1966 · 04/08/2022 10:22

After you take advice and ask for confirmation of the details of complaints against you, based on what she responds with, then could be the time to approach HR with your concerns.

If she doesn't give you the complaints, then very reasonable to contact HR with YOUR concerns.

Pressured to defer your promotion.
Unsubstantiated complaints from managers about your work, despite several requests.
Your work now being supervised.
Spell out the date line.

State that you are very upset, distressed, and threatened at this, as it has all commenced since your pregnancy has started.

Verbally you can say you have a list of other examples but these are main three.

You need advice before you do anything.

Ask should you spell it out to HR that it feels very intimidating.

YOU feel as if an attempt to create a narrative to manage you out, and damage your career, is being created by your manager, since you announced your pregnancy.

Stress that you are being supported by your GP as you try an manage your stress levels.

Also STRESS that you are doing your best at all times and feel all this criticism is completely unwarranted.

Sometimes spelling it out is enough to call a halt to this behaviour by flagging it.

HR should realise that you are laying the ground work for a formal complaint.

Wishing you the best.

Original poster
Forumqueen · 04/08/2022 12:20

billy1966 · 04/08/2022 10:22

After you take advice and ask for confirmation of the details of complaints against you, based on what she responds with, then could be the time to approach HR with your concerns.

If she doesn't give you the complaints, then very reasonable to contact HR with YOUR concerns.

Pressured to defer your promotion.
Unsubstantiated complaints from managers about your work, despite several requests.
Your work now being supervised.
Spell out the date line.

State that you are very upset, distressed, and threatened at this, as it has all commenced since your pregnancy has started.

Verbally you can say you have a list of other examples but these are main three.

You need advice before you do anything.

Ask should you spell it out to HR that it feels very intimidating.

YOU feel as if an attempt to create a narrative to manage you out, and damage your career, is being created by your manager, since you announced your pregnancy.

Stress that you are being supported by your GP as you try an manage your stress levels.

Also STRESS that you are doing your best at all times and feel all this criticism is completely unwarranted.

Sometimes spelling it out is enough to call a halt to this behaviour by flagging it.

HR should realise that you are laying the ground work for a formal complaint.

Wishing you the best.

thank you thank you for this. When I speak to Hr this is exactly what I will read out to them. I cannot thank you enough!!!

I was on the phone to a friend last night and told her everything. She is a manager in a big company and was appalled at the decision she has made. She was shocked that she would bring a senior member of staff into the mix to try and intimidate and under mine me.

I actually approached one of the managers (not my manger) today who had supposedly complained about me (had an inkling it was him) and he explained the only issue he has was about me being late nothing with my performance. I did express to him that I was disappointed he couldn’t come to me with this feedback . Especially as the meeting with the client went well- he even checked up with me later that evening to see if I was ok.(I was late due to car trouble) He just basically said that the client was agitated waiting for me which is understandable I guess. I did inform him this is the first time in two years that I have been late too- he actually said he will contact my manager and try and sort it with her as it was nothing personal. I don’t know how much of this I believe! And I’m not sure if calling him out was the best option but i could not help myself.

i hate Chinese whispers behind my back- I know you can’t always defend yourself. But I feel slightly better after.

I’m not quite sure when I should send the reminder to my manager re the specific feedback of my complaints. But from what I’ve learned so far from above the only complaint is regarding me being late once -she has hugely exaggerated it all.

OP posts:
billy1966 · 04/08/2022 14:08

OP,

I think you did the right thing.
I would email and thank him for his honesty.

(Even though I think it was unkind to complain about something so completely out of your control).

How many times has she mentioned you being complained about?

I think reiterating your apology to him by email, for being late for the first time ever and the fact that it was completely out of your control is important for your paper trail.
Thank him for confirming that it wasn't a problem with your work.

Once you have this.
It is reasonable to email her for clarification about the other complaints as she has mentioned them repeatedly and it is unpleasant to hear repeatedly that you have been complained about, without the chance to resolve the issues.

Being proactive and professional about wanting to resolve all these complaints that have been made about you is reasonable.

If she is lying about other complaints, then she is absolutely bullying you in my opinion, so this will shine a light on that.

If she comes back with the name of the manager you have spoken to, well you can reply that you have clarified with him directly that it was your lateness which was out of your control and not performance related.

Ask for the other managers names so these too can be discussed.

She has brought her manager into a meeting on the basis of these complaints, you need to know what these complaints are.

You have every right to know what complaints are against you when your reputation is at stake.

Contacting ACAS and joining a union is so important.

billy1966 · 04/08/2022 14:18

Please remember to stress to HR how upsetting this is that it has commenced since you announced your pregnancy.

You have every right to state that you are feeling victimised because of your announcement, and how terribly upsetting that is considering how hard you work and how much you enjoy working for the company up to your pregnancy.

Asking HR for support and advice is very reasonable.

Hercisback · 04/08/2022 15:07

Well done OP.
The more you have posted, the more reasonable you sound and the more your manager seems in the wrong.
I'm jaded by an experience with a colleague who claimed maternity discrimination when actually she was being completely unreasonable. Seeing both sides it was obvious, but to hear her side only she made our employers out to be awful when they really weren't.

I hope you speaking to HR is enough to 'scare' her off.

VapeVamp12 · 04/08/2022 15:14

Wow this is why I could never work for a big company, the amount of time wasted having bloody meetings about someone being late to a meeting?

If you weren't pregnant I'd suggest leaving and finding an actual human being to work for!

Original poster
Forumqueen · 04/08/2022 16:21

billy1966 · 04/08/2022 14:08

OP,

I think you did the right thing.
I would email and thank him for his honesty.

(Even though I think it was unkind to complain about something so completely out of your control).

How many times has she mentioned you being complained about?

I think reiterating your apology to him by email, for being late for the first time ever and the fact that it was completely out of your control is important for your paper trail.
Thank him for confirming that it wasn't a problem with your work.

Once you have this.
It is reasonable to email her for clarification about the other complaints as she has mentioned them repeatedly and it is unpleasant to hear repeatedly that you have been complained about, without the chance to resolve the issues.

Being proactive and professional about wanting to resolve all these complaints that have been made about you is reasonable.

If she is lying about other complaints, then she is absolutely bullying you in my opinion, so this will shine a light on that.

If she comes back with the name of the manager you have spoken to, well you can reply that you have clarified with him directly that it was your lateness which was out of your control and not performance related.

Ask for the other managers names so these too can be discussed.

She has brought her manager into a meeting on the basis of these complaints, you need to know what these complaints are.

You have every right to know what complaints are against you when your reputation is at stake.

Contacting ACAS and joining a union is so important.

You sure do have a way with words! Far more articulate than myself. I approached another colleague who I suspected would be the other one who had complained, and again he mentioned absolutely NOTHING about my performance! The only feedback which he said he told my manager was that members of the team were disappointed that I had turned up to a client site with a colleague o and hadn’t told them prior (extremely petty!) this was not an issuer for the client in fact the person I brought along was an expert in his field and the client gave great feedback. He also mentioned that sometimes I contact the clients without their say so (was not aware this was a crime)

Again very petty things that my manager obviously went digging for. Nothing to do with my lack of knowledge and nothing to warrant the needing to shadow me next week .

I am honestly getting so wound up and angry inside. Its a horrible feeling.

@billy1966 could I be so cheeky as to ask you to draft me a message to to send to her following up from our call- asking for the names and the specific complaints. She defiantly hasn’t approached them yet to let them know I want their feedback. They were shocked when I asked them. I’m am 99.9% sure it’s just these two ppl who complained.

OP posts:
billy1966 · 04/08/2022 19:32

Not quite sure what message after what call that you mean.

Spell it out for me?

Have you asked her today for the details of the complaints?

Original poster
Forumqueen · 04/08/2022 21:23

billy1966 · 04/08/2022 19:32

Not quite sure what message after what call that you mean.

Spell it out for me?

Have you asked her today for the details of the complaints?

I haven’t changed sent her the message asking for the complaints. I want to sent a polite yet firm message to her….

OP posts:
billy1966 · 04/08/2022 22:22

How long is it since you asked her for the names and details of the various complaints by managers against you?

I think a week is more than reasonable.

How many times has she made reference to these complaints against you?

But you can email her a polite request re your earlier phone call, ....as to when she will get back to you with the names and details of the various complaints that all the managers have made against you?.

You can say that you would like the opportunity to resolve all these complaints that have been made against you asap.

If she has referenced these complaints 6-10 times without any specifics then it is reasonable to note that...

I note that you have mentioned these complaints that have been made against me on X number of occasions, yet I have not been given any specifics about the complaints.

It is very importort to me that I am informed of the details so that I have the opportunity to meet with all these managers individually and resolve all these issues successfully.

OP, perhaps posting in Legal would be a good idea.

Remember to remain calm and upbeat.

Have you contacted ACAS?

Mississipi71 · 04/08/2022 22:27

Sounds like she is performance managing you out. Always be one step ahead of her, from now on x. You have rights.

Original poster
Forumqueen · 04/08/2022 22:57

Mississipi71 · 04/08/2022 22:27

Sounds like she is performance managing you out. Always be one step ahead of her, from now on x. You have rights.

I initially thought this but…..I only have a few weeks left of Mat leave. How can this even be possible?? It would be extremely hard to get rid of me at this stage.

OP posts:
Original poster
Forumqueen · 04/08/2022 23:20

Sorry I meant I only have a few weeks left till I go on Mat leave

OP posts:
billy1966 · 04/08/2022 23:40

Even more important you get your email into her.

Depending on her response, you then proceed to HR.

But you need to get on to the supports people have told you about so you take the right action BEFORE you go on mat leave.