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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Why Ukrainians treated differently from other refugees?

298 replies

Babymamamama · 30/07/2022 06:51

Disclaimer I’m not a current affairs specialist and not trying to start a bun fight this is a genuine question.
Aibu to ask why it is Ukranian refugees have on appearance been treated so differently from other groups fleeing dreadful conflicts in their home country. I’m specifically thinking of Afghan and Syrian nationals as they are the two groups I’m most aware of.

Round my way people have been hosting Ukrainians, clubbing together as whole streets to contribute to flat deposits, gathering up household items to set up Ukrainians in their temporary homes, holding fundraising concerts. It’s all all admirable and I myself have also contributed where I could. But a lingering question remains -why for this group and not the others? Is this unconscious bias? Why the difference in approach and treatment? Not wanting to offend but something about this doesn’t sit well with me. Can anyone with more knowledge of world affairs enlighten me please?

OP posts:
Jalisco · 30/07/2022 11:27

Babymamamama · 30/07/2022 07:03

Thanks all for your input so far. Lots to think about. Makes me see there are myriad reasons that could be offered (none of which I find wholly justifiable). My local council even has specialist advisers to assist with displaced Ukrainian nationals, linking them up with local residents. Makes me feel I should challenge this and enquire why just for this one group if they call themselves an “anti racist” local authority.

I can't speak for your local authority because I don't know which one it is, but every single one that I know (and that is a lot) have these kinds of staff for ALL refugees and asylum seekers. You simply didn't know that because you never bothered to check what services local authorities offer for these groups. So is it racist that you never bothered to check? No, of course not - you didn't bother to check because it has never impinged on your day to day reality before, so you didn't need to. You are quite right that a bigger effort, from all sections of society, has gone in to supporting Ukrainian refugees, for all sorts of reasons. But if you are so politically right on and anti-racist and knowledgeable about refugees and asylum seekers, why didn't you know about all the work that already goes on to support newcomers to the country? Before you start criticising the council, perhaps you should find out what they already did?

towellette · 30/07/2022 11:28

Syria borders a NATO country.

in Europe?

towellette · 30/07/2022 11:29

@roarfeckingroarr I watched a programme on the Yazidis some years ago, it was horrific. The world turned its back.

EhatBow · 30/07/2022 11:31

I think race does have a lot to do with it and the fact that Ukraine feels so close and the people look and live(d) like we do, but it's also that their refugees are women and children with the men staying behind to "do their duty" whereas the refugees from other places have been predominently young men.

Loveinacandle · 30/07/2022 11:37

caringcarer · 30/07/2022 11:14

I agree with @mywaymona, it feels much safer to offer a room to a Mum with children from Ukraine rather than to single males in 20s or 30s from Syria or Afghanistan. Incidentally as a Foster Carer I offered to care for an unaccompanied minor Syrian refugee but was declined as I am not Muslim. Apparently policy dictates they must be offered homes with Muslim carers who will observe all religious requirements. I was told attending mosque three times a day as an example.

That is completely untrue and whoever told you that is wrong.

There are loads of Syrian and Afghani refugees in need of support, the difference is we are not widely encouraged and celebrated to do so. Perhaps more men are coming in illegally but have you ever thought that most men would rather not put there wife and children on a dinghy to travel across the seas! It obviously makes much more sense for someone more physically able to go first, set up and send for the rest of the family via a safer travel arrangements. And before anyone asks, what is the quick and legal route refugees from Syria can take?

Racism, prejudice, ignorance are the most common reasons why this works for Ukrainian refugees and not any others.

Luredbyapomegranate · 30/07/2022 11:43

It’s a combination of..

It’s a war in Europe, started by Russia, the old enemy of the West. It’s invasion on our doorstep. Given that Russia is also entangled with the UK, it’s extra worrying. We feel nervous. We can relate.

They are white, which triggers both conscious and unconscious bias

Most want to go home eventually

SeptimusWarrenSmith · 30/07/2022 11:44

Basically we've been told that Ukrainians are our people because of the UK's position in all this.

When Trump left Putin lost an important lever. The USA and the rest of NATO wanted to capitalise on that.

Step forward Zelenskiy, in a tricky situation domestically because of his own dealings as an oligarch but with almost full control of his country's media. He's had a problematic border for years that he's made poor decisions around especially when he took the neo Nazis there onto state payroll. He needs NATO, NATO needs a stooge.

All he has to do is push the border situation until Russia has no choice but to react, he can claim Russia are imperialist aggressors, NATO can claim they're imperialist aggressors, offload all their quasi obsolete weapons onto him all the while dangling the prospect of membership in front of him.

Russia does what Russia does ie gear up for a war of attrition throwing every brutalized, raped and traumatised young boy from every Hicksville corner of the country onto Ukraine's front line - now they're also a brutal imperialist aggressor, and everyone in key NATO countries is constantly told this, and that Ukraine (previously a bent state outside of most people's sphere of awareness) is fighting the good fight of democracy for all of us.

They're not of course. Ordinary Ukrainians are being slaughtered and having their country destroyed by a global power that their own leader and NATO pitched them against for reasons of political expediency on both sides. They're fighting for their own survival. But as long as we keep saying it's all about democracy then people across the UK will hopefully receive them without too much trouble.

Which is just as well really, given that they've been completely macerated by global political power play.

abcdeg · 30/07/2022 11:46

EhatBow · 30/07/2022 11:31

I think race does have a lot to do with it and the fact that Ukraine feels so close and the people look and live(d) like we do, but it's also that their refugees are women and children with the men staying behind to "do their duty" whereas the refugees from other places have been predominently young men.

I take it this isn't your personal viewpoint and just explaining it- but Middle Eastern men definitely weren't sitting around watching telly while their country was ravaged. They fought. Now they can't, because Taliban are ruling and if they're caught, they're executed. Same for every other terrorist group. Ukrainian men aren't any braver, men from other countries aren't dodging their duty

SeptimusWarrenSmith · 30/07/2022 11:51

Sorry, should have made clear - it's global political power play that our own government has a key hand in.

So we do kind of owe them.

HoppingPavlova · 30/07/2022 11:53

I suspect because migrants due to war vs economic migrants.

crowdedout · 30/07/2022 11:57

My council has a refugee housing scheme. Its not just for ukrainians. Vast numbers resettle here every year.

Before the ukraine conflict my facebook page was full of appeals for syrian refugees -
Mainly organised by my local chuch.

Close to me a large hotel has been turned into refugee (mainly afghan) accomodation. The local school has embraced these people arriving and is collecting for them and appealing for jobs for them. Their children are attending school.

The government has directly appealed to householders in respect of Ukraine so obviously there is more uptake into peoples homes.

These types of posts are racist in themselves and designed to cause division.

Holidaydreamingagain · 30/07/2022 12:02

Just to point out that over 100,000 Jewish Ukrainians have left since the start of the war. Granted most of them haven’t come to the U.K. but it’s not an entirely Christian country.

jacks11 · 30/07/2022 12:02

I think there are probably many reasons. I would say race may be part of it, for some people, but I really don’t think it’s that simple and I don’t think it’s the biggest one.

Firstly, Ukraine is a European country, so more likely to have diplomatic ties etc causing greater impetus at governmental/diplomatic level which explains the response from there. It is happening in Europe, in a country some will have visited (and most will have heard of). It seems closer to home, it is recognisably western and people can picture it happening to them.

The media publicity adds to that- and this is war in Europe, something that hasn’t happened since world war II. It’s having a huge impact on Europe, and the world. It catches attention. They are our near “neighbours” in geographical terms- especially for Eastern European countries, and even places like Germany (as I assume you aren’t totally taking about the UK response)- which is again, going to increase the likelihood of wanting to help them. Other countries, less close physically but are allies of those countries nearest and additionally want to help friends of our allies/support our allies with difficulties. Most people are more likely to help a friend of a friend, than a complete stranger- similar principle, I think.

There is also the fact that there is a very clear aggressor (Russia), who has also been an antagonist to the west/Europe/NATO for a long time. We fear the consequences if Russia were to win, and so we want to support Ukraine in the defence of their nation. We want our “enemy” defeated, not empowered. This makes it easier to support the victims of the injustice that is the invasion of a sovereign nation by another. Other conflicts are harder to relate to- it’s easier to understand Russia invaded Ukraine, rather than the situation in Afghanistan, Syria or the myriad conflicts/civil wars etc in the Middle East and various African countries- who is the aggressor, who is the victim? it’s often less obvious if you don’t know the history of the conflict or who has done what to whom. Take Syria, as an example- an altogether more complicated set of circumstances and it’s harder to definitively/easily identify those who are fleeing war/persecution from those who were actually attacking them but now looking to get out as the country is in ruins (economic migrants). It might not be fair/nice etc, but it is easier to sell an easy “good vs bad” scenario.

Then there is the fact that the majority of Ukrainian refugees are women, children and the elderly. The men are staying behind to fight. Many of the refugees from Africa and the Middle East appear to be young men (though of course there are families too, but statistically I believe there are more line males than other groups). The former groups arouse more sympathy (rightly or wrongly) than the latter. People feel more “safe” offering help to children, families or the elderly. Some will wonder why they are seeking refuge but more women/families are not- are they really economic migrants? Of course, it’s likely this is because young men are more able to withstand the physical difficulty of getting from their country of origin to Europe- elderly/children less likely to cope, so families with children/elderly relatives less likely to attempt it. Such journeys highly unsafe for lone women, so again less likely to attempt them.

Add in that there appears to be a desire amongst the majority of Ukrainian refugees to return home as soon as they are able, once the war is over, and (rightly or wrongly, unfairly or otherwise) many people see it as a temporary helping hand to a country devastated by the Russian invasion and not an invitation for unlimited numbers to migrate permanently. Many are happy to provide that temporary help but are less keen on permanent immigration. And it is also true to that immigration has significant downsides as well as benefits. And yes, racism towards non-white people will be a factor for some.

Whether the Ukrainians will all return remains to be seen, but it does appear more likely that the majority intend to/will do so than Syrians or Afghans, or Congolese or Yemeni or Cameroonian’s going back to their country of origin. Quite frankly, it is extremely unlikely that these refugees will be able to go home any time soon (for example, can you see Syrian regime changing in the next few years?), even if they wanted to. And many don’t want to, never did. Not that I blame them- in some cases they can’t go back because of persecution for political or religious reasons, for example. For others, there is no desire to return because their life here will be better than returning to a war ravaged country that wasn’t wealthy prior to conflict/civil war/political upheaval etc.

So you see, I think there are a complex of factors, some interlinked, which drive the response to Ukrainian refugees which is lacking for others. And only a small part of that is simply down to racism, IMO.

Holidaydreamingagain · 30/07/2022 12:04

crowdedout · 30/07/2022 11:57

My council has a refugee housing scheme. Its not just for ukrainians. Vast numbers resettle here every year.

Before the ukraine conflict my facebook page was full of appeals for syrian refugees -
Mainly organised by my local chuch.

Close to me a large hotel has been turned into refugee (mainly afghan) accomodation. The local school has embraced these people arriving and is collecting for them and appealing for jobs for them. Their children are attending school.

The government has directly appealed to householders in respect of Ukraine so obviously there is more uptake into peoples homes.

These types of posts are racist in themselves and designed to cause division.

But non Ukrainian refugees are stuck in hotels for sometimes years, whole families on small tools, terrible food and minimal amounts of money where as Ukrainian refugees are for the most part living with comfortable families and able to look for work and claim benefits, it’s actually outrageous.

SeptimusWarrenSmith · 30/07/2022 12:13

this is war in Europe, something that hasn’t happened since world war II

LOL!

Apart from Cyprus, Northern Ireland, Georgia, Albania, Chechnya, Kosovo, Croatia, Moldova, Bosnia etc etc etc, you mean?

ToddlerTimes · 30/07/2022 12:14

Racism pure and simple.

Perfect28 · 30/07/2022 12:22

Can anyone explain why the Ukrainian situation feels more relatable to them than people's plights anywhere in the world? Why are you more able to imagine that than starving in Yemen? Do we not have imaginations and empathy as humans?

VladmirsPoutine · 30/07/2022 12:30

This is not hard. It's because they're white.

RollerPolarBear · 30/07/2022 12:34

SeptimusWarrenSmith · 30/07/2022 11:51

Sorry, should have made clear - it's global political power play that our own government has a key hand in.

So we do kind of owe them.

This is interesting - why the focus by NATO on Russia?

Deidretheelf · 30/07/2022 12:40

I’m not actually sure this translates out of the media in to reality.

My children attend a school with a high number of refugees, mainly Iraqi Christians but also Yemeni & Sudanese who are a mix of Christian & Muslim. They’re made very, very welcome and are part of the community and I count the Mums among my friends.

Although they have things to say about the exploitation of the asylum system by economic migrants which I imagine would make some people on here very cross. Particularly as they came across a LOT of people like this when their claims were being processed.

At the end of the day, Ukrainians are crazy ming from a functioning state, their identities can be verified and the levels of economic migrants exploiting that movement of people to migrate has remained very low so people feel confident sympathy for Ukrainians isn’t misplaced.

Sadly that isn’t the case when you look at collapsed states like Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Libya etc. People like to virtue signal by pretending it’s not the case, but it is, and the people who ultimately suffer are the genuine asylum seekers from those countries who have their misery hijacked and end up in a stigmatised, clogged up system with less support available.

I’m heavily in favour of taking greater numbers of the most in need refugees direct from the countries with issues and camps in surrounding areas so we know they’re genuine and don’t have to waste money on the asylum process and can therefore money on actually supporting genuine refugees rather than weeding out chancers. This would also restore public confidence in the asylum system so it had greater public support and the refugees faced less stigma. We ran a scheme like this for Syria and it worked well.

TartanGirl1 · 30/07/2022 12:42

@Velvettia or maybe they are one of those people that believes the UK is England and vice versa. But you showed your true feelings by automatically assuming they are Scottish 😂

SeptimusWarrenSmith · 30/07/2022 12:45

RollerPolarBear · 30/07/2022 12:34

This is interesting - why the focus by NATO on Russia?

Mostly, to stop Putin getting too big for his boots.

Russia's resource rich but kind of a basket case internally so a lot of the money they make ends up in dodgy hands. We've let them wash that through various parts of the global economy including the UK for a long time because it meant loads of cash for us. You have to draw the line though to keep a bit of distance and the US election was an ideal time - Trump benefited a lot from Putin but now he's gone it's time to slap the bear down and keep it in its place.

After all, we've still got China.

Aleeza91 · 30/07/2022 12:52

Sugarplumfairy65 · 30/07/2022 08:35

Because its the women and children who are seeking refuge and the men are staying to fight for their country

Staying to fight? Haven't they literally got no choice?

My father left Afghanistan in the 90's because his life was at risk from the Taliban , ended up finally settling here in the uk then bringing us over when he had safe accommodation sorted and has been a subject of racism for over 30 years now.

Afghans have been treated differently and considering and if im honest. Living in London, every Eastern European I've came across has spoke very poorly of British people and continue to do so. I don't know why the British are so happy to help them when they speak such filth of them behind their back.
A Ukrainian woman I spoke to only yesterday at the park spoke in such a vulgar way about their English hosts, I had to stop her and leave her alone.

Aleeza91 · 30/07/2022 12:53

Twilightimmortal · 30/07/2022 08:39

I worked in a area that was flooded with women and children from Afghanistan so I'm not sure where people are getting their facts from.

If anyone works in Central London they must remember the refugees last year in the parks and hotels

I worked for a children's charity and we were trying to find activities for the Afghan children to do before they were moved on as their parents would just take them to the park everyday during all hours.

There was nothing in the media about hosting an Afghan family or even just women and children.

Exactly

FoxCorner · 30/07/2022 12:54

Ironfloor269 · 30/07/2022 06:56

I think @CathyTheQueen got it right. The English are deep down rather racist so generally support caucasians over dark skinned people.

Which makes our neighbouring countries equally racist then, given they have also been more likely to host Ukrainians in their homes than refugees of other nationalities